Strange Fender Bassman Head , need help ID -ing

[LeeMo]

I was visiting the local music shop today and the first thing that caught my eye was a Bassman head. Blackface , cream Brownface knobs , flat Fender logo, 5881's 12ax7's no rectifier tube , no doghouse ( could have been removed), cardboard caps, Black smooth tolex, no cabinet hold downs , and get this, NO HANDLE. There was a rectangle cut in the bottom and rounded over. The tolex looked "factory" the front "grill cloth " was a silver with a Marshall-like bead around it ( probably not original) The tube chart had been torn away and the model number aws gone.
Does anyone have an idea as to the pedigree?

LeeMo

[rdjones]

I was visiting the local music shop today and the first thing that caught my eye was a Bassman head. Blackface , cream Brownface knobs , flat Fender logo, 5881's 12ax7's no rectifier tube , no doghouse ( could have been removed), cardboard caps, Black smooth tolex, no cabinet hold downs , and get this, NO HANDLE. There was a rectangle cut in the bottom and rounded over. The tolex looked "factory" the front "grill cloth " was a silver with a Marshall-like bead around it ( probably not original) The tube chart had been torn away and the model number aws gone.
Does anyone have an idea as to the pedigree?

LeeMo

It sounds like a transitional model from '63 with some modifications.
No Bassmans had piping, but it sounds like the cabinet was redone without a handle.
All Basssman heads before about 1967 had the bottom handle recess, but they all also had the hold down clips, and cap covers.

Certain features can identify the model:
Presence knob ?
Fender Musical Instruments or Fender Electric Instrument ?
Control numbers on the faceplate (to match the barrel knobs) ?
Bright switchs ?
Rear AC convenience outlet ?
Serial number ?

A picture is worth a thousand words, get us some snapshots :->

reddog

[Gibsonman63]

Transformer date codes, assuming they are original. There should be three groups of numbers. The middle two are the year.

[LeeMo]

Thanks rdjones and Gibsonman63,
I ran into the music store owner in the grocery store this weekend. He says that he will snap some pictures. I'll try to get him to let me drop the chassis for the photoshoot.
We both suspect a re-cover from blonde or a re-knob.

Thanks again,

LeeMo

[Gibsonman63]

The re-knob would be easy to tell. If the cream colored knobs are original, the numbers will be printed on the faceplate. The later blackface amps, have the numbers on the knobs.

[LeeMo]

The numbers are on the plate. I haven't been back over there , this week.

LeeMo

[rdjones]

If it's a black faceplate with control numbers and no bright switches, it's a 6G6-B.
Some later production Blond and Brown Fender's got black faceplates, before the change to true Blackface circuits.

The cabinet is certainly some sort of re-do.

Another possibility is a clone of some kind.
The Marsh/Mojo clone faceplates and chassis' have been around for a while now ...

rd

[ampcabinets]

I have 3 blonde amps
1 x '63 (6g6B) bassman and 1 x 63 (6g7a)bandmaster and a 6G14 Showman. The first 2 are original, with only slight mods (new tolex on the bassman and some new caps, the showman is a complete rebuild (by me), with new everything except the chassis and face/rear plates (built with a second one, actually... 'in hand' for measurements, etc). I am still looking for a capacitor cover, if anyone has one to sell.

The rarer 'blackface with numbers' 1964 series amps (bassman and bandmaster for sure) series amplifiers had a blackface, and numbers with blackface knobs. These covered up the numbers, on the dial(s), so you couldn't see them. Removing the black knobs will show the numbered faceplate underneath. They had blonde circuits (presence control and all) but blackface characteristics of the cabinet. Lots of people took the black knobs off and added the cream ones, later. I have even had people tell me they came with them, too, so maybe they did at one time, I cannot say for sure. They would have orginally been black tolexed.

Some even had brown rearplates and a blackface frontplate (I've seen 2 or 3 in my 35+ years as an amp. tech)

The earlier (1962-63) cabinets & (most not all), had a square hole (slightly rounded and rounded over/routered) in the bottom to allow for the original dog-bone handles (on the speaker cabinet), when the amp sat on the cabinet. The metal plate under the chassis covered the opening from the inside, so you couldn't stick your fingers in the circuit and die from the high voltage(s). Later models (same 6g6b circuit, etc) had a slight indentation, instead of a hole for the dog bone handle, as just before they went blackface, they used brown handles the same as the black ones used later on, just brown. Logos, also were brown, and then later black for a short period of time. The feet were smaller on the pre-cbs era amps and later were made a bit larger to help it get over the handles of the speaker cabinets.
Most also, had the inside of the cabinet painted brown, before the tolex was applied, tube chart, etc.
As far as I know, they ALL had the chrome tie-downs on the bottom of the amp for mounting to the speaker cabinet(s). So if your amp does not have them , they were removed at some point in time. As was the handle.
Dating is a bit tricky, in that Fender had transformers sitting on the shelf for up to 6 months, before they were put on the amp. Therefore you can only get that close to an actual date (using the transformer date codes).
Some builders/techs, also, signed or stamped their name inside, too. These are the best indicators of the actual build date of the amp, itself.
The tube chart is the best indicator of the cabinet date, if it is original to the amp.

Grills:
first came the maroon
then came wheat, and all sorts of colors related to wheat. My bassman's grill originally had an orangeish colored grill, which a fender amp builder told me was some of the last cloth used, as fender was re-tooling and grabbed what they had to get orders out. The showman example I had, had true wheat colored cloth and the bandmaster has a greyish wheat colored grill cloth, as does the matching bandmaster cabinet I have, and came with the amp, as I bought it. My 2 bassman bottoms (2x10 and 2x12) have wheat (2x10) and wheat/gold (2x12). They all had tilt-back legs, too ,on the speaker cabinets. 16 inch oin the 2x10, 19 inch on the 2x12 and 1x15/2x15 showman cabinets. Originally the showman could have had either a 1x15 cabinet or 2x15 cabinet. The 1x15, they called a showman, the 2x15 they called a dual showman,. but the amp was the same 'showman'. The others usually had a 2x12 with them, but you could get a 2x10, also (as with most tremolux(s) at the time.

You may take this with a small grain of salt, and all I can say is this is what I have seen in my years of experience and what I have learned over the years.
I may not be 100% correct, but I am very close, if I am not. I am NOT a Fender expert. I've just worked on a lot of them.

I started my collection of blonde amps, when I saw Terry Kath (Chicago) playing his blonde Strat with his blonde bassman, and I saw this setup at least 4 times, (some on acid...and like WOW MAN!!) with him and Chicago. This would have been circa 1970 to 1976 or so.
Tom Petty uses one, as does Mike Campbell (from time to time), Brian Setzer. Look closely at Pete Townsends original setup, too. Many others.
The 6G6 series of bassman amps are the best I have ever heard, for anything. But we all have our opinions.

I like to believe I can achieve my 'sound' using almost any amp, using my pedals, etc. I have marshalls (yes blonde ones to match my Fenders) and hiwatts, and more. I prefer my Fenders.
Most amps I build for my customers are Marshall circuits, for some reason, although the early bassman (5F6A) / JTM45 (or 100 watt) is very popular, too.


after reading over this, I added:
This does not mean they were the only style 1964 amps from fender.
Some earlier 1964's (bassmans, etc) were completely "blonde", brownface/rear plates, etc.

[LarryLarry]

Can someone tell me if the Bassman heads have a solid piece of wood under the grillcloth or does it have holes or slots? Seems like having some openings to allow cooling air would be a good idea...

[ampcabinets]

as far as I know they were all solid, but some have plywood, instead of solid wood.
None of the early amp heads had holes through the grill cloth (in the wood, not the cloth).

If the amp is tuned/biased right, it shouldn't overheat.

[LarryLarry]

That's what I seemed to remember about the BF and SF Bassmans, wasn't sure on the blondes tho...

Thanks!

[Firestorm]

The Bassman 135 model has 6 oval holes in the power end of the front panel under the grille cloth. Also rectangular plastic vents on each end. I don't think anything earlier did. The new ones are vented.

[LarryLarry]

With the GZ34, I've got it biased at 38ma with Philips 6L6GCs and the Tung Sol 5881s are at 36ma. That is with 430vdc on the plates.

When I switch to SS rectifier it goes to 45ma with the 6L6GCs and 42ma with the 5881s with 440vdc on the plates.

[rdjones]

The Bassman 135 model has 6 oval holes in the power end of the front panel under the grille cloth. Also rectangular plastic vents on each end. I don't think anything earlier did. The new ones are vented.

The ultralinear Bassman 70 also received the ventilation treatment similar to the 135.
This was around 1977, nothing as early as a Blond or Blackface would have it.

rd