?Circuit constants, Chopsticks, Lead dress, Deep Juju, etc.?

[ER]

Any of you amp wizards out there care to share your favorite spells for dialing in an amp and milking out every last bit of sweetness?

I'm pretty happy with my circuit values as is, just want to put on the finishing touches/optimization before buttoning it up and putting it in a cabinet.

Feel free to PM if you're not ready to share your secrets with the world.

Thanks, Erik

[talbany]

This is an interesting topic..I get a ton of PM's asking the same question and for me there is no real answer for this.. Here is my view..
In amp building your only as good as your last build, meaning it's a constant evolution..The more you build the more familiar you become with each individual circuit, how it functions and how great an impact it has on the overall timbre and feel..As you begin to narrow all this down by study, testing, building and tweaking you slowly over time realize how important each aspect of the design/build becomes and what an exact role it plays on the overall tone of the amp..
As we all have discovered here over time there can be several different versions of a specific generation like 124 and 183..These versions might include a different drive and level controls or a different trigger and different parts types for different sections like caps, resistors, pots and coax etc..most of these alterations won't make the amp sound better or worse just different so knowing how all these changes and or modifications impact the overall tone so you can incorporate each alteration or part type in order to meet your needs or your customers needs..This is the reward you get for putting in the time!!
This place is a wonderful tool to use as a starting point for this but you still need to do it yourself..

There are a few things I usually go over before sealing it up..

Lead dress
PI Trimmer
GNFB Resistor
Tube rolling
I go over each solder connection with a high power magnifying glass
I generally leave the probes on the tubes for at least 5 min or so to make sure my tubes won't drift.. Especially 34's
After the amp gets sealed up I let it burn in 48 hrs..

Tony

[ER]

Thanks Tony!

I took me over a year to get this one done, so experience comes slow. I got major respect for you guys that do this day in day out. Anybody that complains about amp prices has never built one. The time it took me to get it done put's it on valuation with a real dumble.

Do you run a signal during burn in?
Any more specifics on lead dress? I know which wires like to run together, but are there any that should be spaced away a little more? I'm gonna go in there with chop sticks and see if a little nudge here or there get's me anything.

I could use a little more of what's going on in your 102, I'll have to revisit that thread.

Thanks, ER

[talbany]

Thanks Tony!

I took me over a year to get this one done, so experience comes slow. I got major respect for you guys that do this day in day out. Anybody that complains about amp prices has never built one. The time it took me to get it done put's it on valuation with a real dumble.

Do you run a signal during burn in?
Any more specifics on lead dress? I know which wires like to run together, but are there any that should be spaced away a little more? I'm gonna go in there with chop sticks and see if a little nudge here or there get's me anything.

I could use a little more of what's going on in your 102, I'll have to revisit that thread.

ER
Just babbling here but when talking about what makes certian amps or really anything to do with tone and what causes certain tools to sound so special to some (whether it's feedback, bloom or whatevever inspires you) is really to me a whole other level and where you enter the true art form of amp building..This is generally where you hear the word voodoo,or magic dust or parts tolerance... IMO it's never as simple as moving just a few wires or certain tubes or changing a few caps..Although all of this might be a part of it, usually it's a combination of several things that causes why a certain piece sounds the way it does..Since you won't find any of those answers in tube manuals,data sheets and generally won't show up on a scope makes it all the more illusive and sometimes goes past conventional wisdom, sometimes you might come across things by chance or trial and error.. These are generally the most closely guarded secrets and rightly so since they are the most difficult part of amp building and what distinguishes you from the others..
I guess my whole point here is for me it's never just 1 thing that makes an amp so special it's generally a combination of several things or in the case with Dumbles many..

Hope This Helps!!

Tony

[ToneMerc]

IMO it's never as simple as moving just a few wires or certain tubes or changing a few caps..Although all of this might be a part of it, usually it's a combination of several things that causes why a certain piece sounds the way it does..Since you won't find any of those answers in tube manuals,data sheets and generally won't show up on a scope makes it all the more illusive and sometimes goes past conventional wisdom, sometimes you might come across things by chance or trial and error.. These are generally the most closely guarded secrets and rightly so since they are the most difficult part of amp building

Tony

IMHO, that's the difference between just a parts assembler and true builder.

TM

[ER]

Thanks guys,

I really had to go with my gut on this stuff, I thought about each stage, how they were coupled, how I wanted them to interact, what was right about amps I've had in the past and how to get more of that...and how to match it all with my playing style and instruments I use.

I did the best I could, and I think I got lucky that it even works at all not to mentions does what I was hoping it would.

I think I'm 95% there, probably time to move on. The final thing I was hoping to eek out was finding a balance with the presence between the clean and OD, when I dial in the good bloom and lead tone with the presence on OD, going back to the clean channel it's overly bright, turning it back a few notches and it's just right for the clean (sounds like new strings!) Maybe I just need to turn it up louder!

"Sir, step away from the amplifier and put the soldering iron down!"

-Erik

[groovtubin]

Thanks guys,

I really had to go with my gut on this stuff, I thought about each stage, how they were coupled, how I wanted them to interact, what was right about amps I've had in the past and how to get more of that...and how to match it all with my playing style and instruments I use.

I did the best I could, and I think I got lucky that it even works at all not to mentions does what I was hoping it would.

I think I'm 95% there, probably time to move on. The final thing I was hoping to eek out was finding a balance with the presence between the clean and OD, when I dial in the good bloom and lead tone with the presence on OD, going back to the clean channel it's overly bright, turning it back a few notches and it's just right for the clean (sounds like new strings!) Maybe I just need to turn it up louder!

"Sir, step away from the amplifier and put the soldering iron down!"

-Erik

Live, i use BOTH bright caps on the dator, and blv it or not, the clean is perfect, and the OD is NOT bright, it`s perfect, just got lucky i guess!

jim@Omegaamps

[ER]

Thanks Jim-

I'll wait till my loop is done before I make any further changes, it should help.

[renshen1957]

Thanks guys,

I really had to go with my gut on this stuff, I thought about each stage, how they were coupled, how I wanted them to interact, what was right about amps I've had in the past and how to get more of that...and how to match it all with my playing style and instruments I use.

I did the best I could, and I think I got lucky that it even works at all not to mentions does what I was hoping it would.

I think I'm 95% there, probably time to move on. The final thing I was hoping to eek out was finding a balance with the presence between the clean and OD, when I dial in the good bloom and lead tone with the presence on OD, going back to the clean channel it's overly bright, turning it back a few notches and it's just right for the clean (sounds like new strings!) Maybe I just need to turn it up louder!

"Sir, step away from the amplifier and put the soldering iron down!"

-Erik

Hi,

I can only add that each amp is its own universe. Component values can be imitated up to a point, after that the sum total of how these behave and interact together (and how variable some of the tubes behave), speakers and lead dress, transformers, type of wire used comes into play.

Or succinctly put, every parameter you can control you must control.

Smaller old time manufactures (back in the 1960's point to point, circuit cards, and Turret boards) used to use capacitor substitution boxes and resistor substitution boxes to fine tune values, to perform critical adjustment. These manufacturers weren't so much interested in unit to unit consistency, rather to produce the best sounding amp possible.

Patience is another important component.

Trainwreck's Ken Fischer in an interview said he could hear the difference between irradiated and non-irradiate PVC insulation on wires, whether tubes had been manufactured with Dow chemicals instead of Dupont chemicals, and stated that Teflon wire was bright (so a build would have to be adjusted to counter this). Do any of these show up on an O-scope?

Going with your gut is good.

How many of us amp builders have heard (or played) a half a dozen real H A Dumble Dumble Amps side by side? on a stage Or if one cloned a specific Dumble serial number, had the opportunity to compare it side by side with the original? For the most part not too many.

For a number of us, recordings (which are dependent on the engineer, microphone placement) are our closest contact with the amp.

The best thing is to make the amp you build the best and sweetest sound you can. Which comes with experience. And then go on to the next amp.

Best Regards,

Steve