More Dynamic range from Fender Blues Jr at low volume...

[glennc717]

Sorry if this has been asked. I've gone to many forum before finding this Amp Forum. The Fender Blues Jr. Green Board does not sound good until you hit 2 on the master. I'm not talking distortion, just more dynamic sound, clean or distorted. The problem is that at 2 or more, my living situation puts me in the restricted volume level mode. I don't know if this amp is worth modding or I should keep it stock and get a different amp. I have no experience so from a new speaker to a full mod kit to external speakers, to lower efficiency speakers to attenuators to post phase inverters, I am completely lost. I am most interested in the good dynamic range you get from higher volume at a lower volume. Can't spend a fortune for the difference. Also in addition to the lower volume, I would like to get a less boxey sound. I am an amateur who has no particular style. Like the blues, led zeppelin, allman brothers, david gilmour. I am a gibson owner and have recently gotten a cheap strat squier. I am surprised at the dynamic quality coming from these cheap single coil as compared to 57 humbuckers in a LP. The 57's in a 335 sound pretty good also. I was thinking of first changing to some yet to be decided better speaker as a start.
Any opinions especially knowledgeable one will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for any help!
Glenn

[Jana]

Dynamic range is the range of quiet passages to the loud passages. You control this by your playing technique. You turn the amp up and play loud or soft--that is dynamic range. Anything you do, be it power soak, less efficient speakers, master volumes, etc. is going to limit your dynamic range.

What you probably need is an isolation cabinet of some sort.

[brentm]

Hmm... if I recall, 2 is still fairly quiet from a Blues Junior..

Given that its a greenboard and fairly old, (at least 10 years), have you considered new tubes??

http://billmaudio.com/wp/?page_id=131

Might be a cheap and easy way to breathe some life back into that amp. Great amps by the way!!! I'm always on the hunt for a cheap tweed covered Blues Junior..

[glennc717]

Dynamic range is the range of quiet passages to the loud passages. You control this by your playing technique. You turn the amp up and play loud or soft--that is dynamic range. Anything you do, be it power soak, less efficient speakers, master volumes, etc. is going to limit your dynamic range.

What you probably need is an isolation cabinet of some sort.

Hello Jana,
I believe I misused the term, what I was specifically meaning is the range of frequencies produced by the amp/speaker. More low and higher highs. At low setting the range of frequencies is noticeably less than when it is turned up passed 2. 2 is too loud. Sorry for not expressing it properly!
Glenn

[glennc717]

Hmm... if I recall, 2 is still fairly quiet from a Blues Junior..

Given that its a greenboard and fairly old, (at least 10 years), have you considered new tubes??

http://billmaudio.com/wp/?page_id=131

Might be a cheap and easy way to breathe some life back into that amp. Great amps by the way!!! I'm always on the hunt for a cheap tweed covered Blues Junior..

Hello brentm,
Thanks for responding. This is the last of the American made juniors and it hasn't been played hard. Tubes look new, and the problem although it might be due to the age, I believe has always been there and I never noticed it.
There are the two separate issue, the loss of frequencies range at low volume and the standard BillM type lets make the amp sound less boxy fixes. I will certainly consider new tubes, I don't really know enough to tell if a new speaker of better quality might not be the way to go!!???!
Cheers
Glenn

[brentm]

Hmm... if I recall, 2 is still fairly quiet from a Blues Junior..

Given that its a greenboard and fairly old, (at least 10 years), have you considered new tubes??

http://billmaudio.com/wp/?page_id=131

Might be a cheap and easy way to breathe some life back into that amp. Great amps by the way!!! I'm always on the hunt for a cheap tweed covered Blues Junior..

Hello brentm,
Thanks for responding. This is the last of the American made juniors and it hasn't been played hard. Tubes look new, and the problem although it might be due to the age, I believe has always been there and I never noticed it.
There are the two separate issue, the loss of frequencies range at low volume and the standard BillM type lets make the amp sound less boxy fixes. I will certainly consider new tubes, I don't really know enough to tell if a new speaker of better quality might not be the way to go!!???!
Cheers
Glenn

BillM mentions the speaker upgrade to resolve the boxiness. Yeah, the greenboard was the last of the american made Blues Juniors. Now they're in Mexico I believe...

You might take a peek at the power tubes... BillM gives a good comparison of visual effects of tube wear.

[img:800:521]http://billmaudio.com/wp/wp-content/upl ... n_el84.jpg[/img]

Here are two Sovtek EL84s. The one on the top is lightly used. It came out of one of my personal amps, with adjustable bias, of course, set at a reasonable level.

The lower one came out of a customer amp. It sounded pretty dull and lifeless. You can see staining or shadows on the inside of the glass above the rectangular “windows” in the plate. This is mostly cathode material that got boiled off. Because of the higher bias and current flow, the temperature in the bottom tube was much higher over its lifespan and its lifespan was shortened. The staining is a visible sign of tube wear.

[glennc717]

Thank you exceptionally! I did look at them but as you noted, I had nothing to compare them to. The photos are going to be a great help! Will take a gander in the morning. Really appreciate your assistance!
Regards,
Glenn

[Cliff Schecht]

With a bit of practice one can get proficient at eyeballing how well used a tube is. There are a lot of telltale signs like smearing of the edges of the getter, ghosting/shadowing effects on the glass, heat cracks in the tube base as well as the obvious burnt looking silkscreening (i.e. when white lettering is brown).

Usually within the first 10 seconds of a conversation about someones amp having problems I will ask "have you changed the tubes?". A good 90% of the time the answer is either "no I use the tubes the amp came with" or "yes but it was a few years ago". Before they take their amp to a tech I make them go buy the right tubes and put them in. You'd be surprised how many "broken" amps I fix this way (and usually don't charge for doing so).

[glennc717]

With a bit of practice one can get proficient at eyeballing how well used a tube is. There are a lot of telltale signs like smearing of the edges of the getter, ghosting/shadowing effects on the glass, heat cracks in the tube base as well as the obvious burnt looking silkscreening (i.e. when white lettering is brown).

Usually within the first 10 seconds of a conversation about someones amp having problems I will ask "have you changed the tubes?". A good 90% of the time the answer is either "no I use the tubes the amp came with" or "yes but it was a few years ago". Before they take their amp to a tech I make them go buy the right tubes and put them in. You'd be surprised how many "broken" amps I fix this way (and usually don't charge for doing so).

Hello Chris,
After Brentm's great reply I began looking around. I came across a tube store with reviews of the tubes. Didn't realize that there were so many different versions and compatibles. Daunting. This was only for the output valves. Do you suggest doing the pre-amp also? The coffee hasn't kicked in so I can't make a valid visual inspection of them as yet.
How does on go about choosing which of the versions of the tube to buy?
Do you offer any suggestions?? Thanks for your response!
Glenn

[brentm]

On the Blues Junior I worked on for a friend, I replaced the tubes with exactly what BillM recommended (eventually). JJ EL84s and Groove Tubes 12ax7s. I tried inserting one of my old stock tubes in V1 and it ended up making some ghost notes appear some time later. At first I thought it was the speaker, but quickly swapped the tube with the Groove Tube 12ax7 and it disappeared. I think my old tube was going microphonic...

You might pop the back cover off and just visually inspect the power supply filter caps. Although the leaky caps seem to be limited to the 2003-2004 Blues Juniors, it'd be worth taking a peek and it's only a few screws to remove to pop that back cover off. http://billmaudio.com/wp/?page_id=267

The earlier link on tubes has a great subjective review of the tubes tested in a BJR. Of the modifications BillM has developed, the bias control is probably the one I would do on the Blues Junior.

http://home.comcast.net/~machrone/bjr/bjbias.htm

[NickC]

I replaced the stock Blues Jr speaker with a Celestion Lead 80 (from a Fender Concert Pro that was upgraded to an EVM12L).

I did all the BillM mods and recommend highly. But the biggest improvement in tone came from the speaker replacement.

[Phil_S]

...The problem is that at 2 or more, my living situation puts me in the restricted volume level mode. I don't know if this amp is worth modding or I should keep it stock and get a different amp...

Glenn,
You are getting lots of good advice about the BJ. I don't think I can add to that. However, I'm not sure your question(s) have really been addressed. It seems to me that you need an amp that isn't so loud. The BJ is probably in the 15W range. (Note: the aural perception of tube watts and solid state watts is different for reasons that baffle me. We're discussing tube amps here.) It's my humble opinion that you should get another amp for home use. I think you would benefit from a 1/2 or 1W amp. Yes, such things exist in abundance, but not so much in the commercial market. This seems to be the domain of boutique and home builders, though Marshall just put one out.

You don't really say what you are looking for in an amp; what kind of music you play, etc. That makes it hard to point you in a particular direction. You also don't say if you've got a budget for another amp. (Don't sell the BJ if you like it.) I suggest you search Youtube for a while for 1 watt and 1/2 watt amplifiers. When you find one you like, then we can figure out how you can get one.

A couple of commercial amps:
Here's the Marshall 1-watter: http://www.youtube.comwatch?v=Fp2Q7OcVkhU
The Blackstar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmnrgJ6vLYc This guy yammers on too much, but there are some clips of him playing.

More boutique, a favorite of mine...this can be voiced from clean to dirty, as can many of the homebrews:
http://www.gerhartamps.com/gilmorejr/bu ... ilders.htm
It's a kit that just about anyone can build. The Brent Hammel demo clip is outstanding as are many of the others. If interested in this, I'd get it here...skipping the story, that's where you'll get it faster: http://www.guytronix.com/contactordering.html

Homebrew type:
The fabled Firefly from AX84.com: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ubgQVMRAQI

[glennc717]

On the Blues Junior I worked on for a friend, I replaced the tubes with exactly what BillM recommended (eventually). JJ EL84s and Groove Tubes 12ax7s. I tried inserting one of my old stock tubes in V1 and it ended up making some ghost notes appear some time later. At first I thought it was the speaker, but quickly swapped the tube with the Groove Tube 12ax7 and it disappeared. I think my old tube was going microphonic...

You might pop the back cover off and just visually inspect the power supply filter caps. Although the leaky caps seem to be limited to the 2003-2004 Blues Juniors, it'd be worth taking a peek and it's only a few screws to remove to pop that back cover off. http://billmaudio.com/wp/?page_id=267

The earlier link on tubes has a great subjective review of the tubes tested in a BJR. Of the modifications BillM has developed, the bias control is probably the one I would do on the Blues Junior.

http://home.comcast.net/~machrone/bjr/bjbias.htm

Hello Brent,
It being Mother's Day and having a plumber over has thrown a monkey wrench in my scheduling. But today or tomorrow I will look into it
Thanks again!
Glenn

[glennc717]

I replaced the stock Blues Jr speaker with a Celestion Lead 80 (from a Fender Concert Pro that was upgraded to an EVM12L).

I did all the BillM mods and recommend highly. But the biggest improvement in tone came from the speaker replacement.

Hello NickC,
Thanks for your experienced opinions and knowledge. From what I've read, just the age of the tubes seems to indicate that would be a worthwhile change. I do believe the speaker will help. Just have to get the money and figure out what one. Fun...
Glenn

[glennc717]

...The problem is that at 2 or more, my living situation puts me in the restricted volume level mode. I don't know if this amp is worth modding or I should keep it stock and get a different amp...

Glenn,
You are getting lots of good advice about the BJ. I don't think I can add to that. However, I'm not sure your question(s) have really been addressed. It seems to me that you need an amp that isn't so loud. The BJ is probably in the 15W range. (Note: the aural perception of tube watts and solid state watts is different for reasons that baffle me. We're discussing tube amps here.) It's my humble opinion that you should get another amp for home use. I think you would benefit from a 1/2 or 1W amp. Yes, such things exist in abundance, but not so much in the commercial market. This seems to be the domain of boutique and home builders, though Marshall just put one out.

You don't really say what you are looking for in an amp; what kind of music you play, etc. That makes it hard to point you in a particular direction. You also don't say if you've got a budget for another amp. (Don't sell the BJ if you like it.) I suggest you search Youtube for a while for 1 watt and 1/2 watt amplifiers. When you find one you like, then we can figure out how you can get one.

A couple of commercial amps:
Here's the Marshall 1-watter: http://www.youtube.comwatch?v=Fp2Q7OcVkhU
The Blackstar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmnrgJ6vLYc This guy yammers on too much, but there are some clips of him playing.

More boutique, a favorite of mine...this can be voiced from clean to dirty, as can many of the homebrews:
http://www.gerhartamps.com/gilmorejr/bu ... ilders.htm
It's a kit that just about anyone can build. The Brent Hammel demo clip is outstanding as are many of the others. If interested in this, I'd get it here...skipping the story, that's where you'll get it faster: http://www.guytronix.com/contactordering.html

Homebrew type:
The fabled Firefly from AX84.com: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ubgQVMRAQI

Hello and that thought crossed my mind. Having no experience with them I thought of them as toys without any real sonic merit. With your suggestion I will certainly take a look. One way or the other I have to do probably the tubes and the speaker on the Fender Blues Jr. If that doesn't help or even if it doesn't the small amps seem to make sense depending on their price and quality.
Glenn