The amp that powers everything

[LeftyStrat]

I wanted to start a new thread to avoid derailing another thread that started here:

https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.php?t=17768

The basic idea is how one could build an amp that supplied all the power needs of a guitarist. Sending power to pedals, active guitar electronics, etc.

The idea started when a guy I was building a Dumble for asked if the footswitch for OD, PAD, and MID could also supply power to his effects board, as well as have an input for his guitar.

He called it "Only having one 'trip' wire to the amp."

[LeftyStrat]

The idea of using a stereo cable, using the ring for +9v is not without disadvantages. Having isolated supplies would be nice, especially for any positive ground effects like the fuzz face.

There is something called CAT7e, which has four twisted pairs, each individually shielded.

The idea is to have one cable run from the amp to the pedalboard, carrying power and signals.

The 9v over TSR is done here:

http://dcvoltage.net/p3

There is another solution which I can't seem to remember the web site, which carries multiple signals and voltages over a bundled cable.

The quest is simple. Is there a way that an amp can provide all the power needs of a musician, with a minimum of cabling.

[diagrammatiks]

sure. use a trs or a midi cable.

or just run a separate cable for power.

fuchs has a system like this ..

http://www.fuchsaudiotechnology.com/pro ... .php?cat=1

It's easy enough to build an amp with enough power for pedals, if you have room for the transformers and circuitry.

Whether or not it's going to be as stable and quiet as a dedicated solution is another matter.

whoops looks like fuch uses the dc p3 tech from your link...

here's the problem...if you're only talking on cable to the board..you're gonna have to daisy chain your pedals.

that's not so good.

[Cliff Schecht]

It makes the most sense to me to go from AC-DC inside of the amp (simple bridge-->cap supply) and to do any necessary power conversion in the foot pedal or wherever the power is running. From there you can run the 9V through either a linear regulator or SMPS to clean up the voltage.

For pedals that require special power you could build some little SMPS circuits. I've already posted how to go from 9V-18V and how to go from +9V to -9V but you can also use a simple flyback converter with off-the-shelf magnetics to achieve isolated 9V. Something like this would be about the size of a quarter and could easily be made into inline adapters that you attach to each pedal to isolate any possible ground loops (which IME is not necessary with a clean regulated 9V supply).

I was talking with my dad today about the possibility of making a bunch of little boards that implement various power supply functions. These ideally would be little boards that I have built in China and sell for like $5 a pop. Tiny, clean power solutions for cheap!

While I probably won't pursue this I will be posting my project files online for these various projects once I build them (still waiting on parts!). If you aren't afraid of SMD stuff then I can help you design some simple little regulators to do what you need to do.

[Structo]

Just make a cable out of a high quality snake cable.

Then you can run the footswitch, power to pedals, power to anything out to the guitarist.

That way you only half one reasonably thick cable out to the guitarists spot.

You could even run a mic cable in it to free that up.

I built one a few years ago but the cable was too lossy and didn't sound good, but the physics is sound.

Check out http://www.pedalsnake.com/ for ideas and sticker shock.

[Reeltarded]

I would use a 7 pin midi cable. The twisted pairs of CAT are solid core, and they break really often. Out monitoring system is made by Hearback, and it's flatly awful due to the CAT interface for just this reason.

Buzzkill.

[selloutrr]

So what do you do if the pedals require 18V or 24V or even 12VAC even 120VAC?

you can make adaptors to get you up to 18V from 9V but this is still rather limiting. Another problem you may run into is that by the time you give the Guitar player "everything" they need the cable running from the pedal to the amp is so fat it is it'self a tripping hazard.

I deal with anal musicians all the time. If it's not one thing it's going to be another. just 9 volts is not enough in the new age of Digital pedals.

The Guitar pluggin into the foot switch has been done a lot, even adding a switch and volume control so it acts as a boost, cut via foot instead of rolling back your instrument volume.

[Structo]

Being that you run a studio, do you require guitarist power their pedals with batteries to reduce the noise floor?

[LeftyStrat]

Check out http://www.pedalsnake.com/ for ideas and sticker shock.

Yeah, I had seen that. Definitely not cheap.

Good points brought up by everyone. Just looking at my own needs (18v, positive ground fuzz face,etc) I realize there's not a single solution out there.

I had thought that most AC-powered devices would be rack mount or at least in the FX loop back at the amp. But this isn't really the case.

Guess that's why Bradshaw makes the big bucks.

I think for my friend I can come up with something to suit his needs. Provide a courtesy outlet on the rear of the amp. And provide three or four isolated 9v outlets on the channel switching pedal, plus a guitar input on the pedal.

I plan on using one of those multi tapped transformers from Weber.

I suppose if noise was a problem, I could convert the guitar signal to balanced inside the channel switch pedal.

[Reeltarded]

Being that you run a studio, do you require guitarist power their pedals with batteries to reduce the noise floor?

Mostly, guys recording with their pedals is a no-go, unless the pedal IS the sound of a part, especially when tracking a live band. Overdubs might mean anything is possible, but we'll see about that when it goes down.

Go ahead. Hate me. You'll love me later, and who cares anyhow?

Me. I make records, not friends.

[Gibsonman63]

I would think that it would be easier to power everything from the pedal board, then run a snake back to the amp with instrument signal and the footswitch signals. I recently upgraded my pedalboard with a power supply that galvanically isolates all of the DC outputs and it made a tremendous difference. It would be cumbersome to snake all of those down to the pedalboard.

I agree with Reeltarded about effects on recording, expecially time based delays. For me, I need to use the wah as I play to get the effect right and sometimes a distortion pedal, based on the amp. Of course, after they leave, you will probably reamp them through a far better amp than the one they brought and insisted on using for the recording.

[Structo]

Being that you run a studio, do you require guitarist power their pedals with batteries to reduce the noise floor?

Mostly, guys recording with their pedals is a no-go, unless the pedal IS the sound of a part, especially when tracking a live band. Overdubs might mean anything is possible, but we'll see about that when it goes down.

Go ahead. Hate me. You'll love me later, and who cares anyhow?

Me. I make records, not friends.

Well I have never stepped foot into a studio other than my guitar room so I don't know that much about it.
So are saying that most if not all guitar effects are done post recording, in the mixing?

[Reeltarded]

Well, I only track what the song needs, or at least I delete what the song doesn't need when I sit to mix.

What sounds good is good. It's harder to explain than it is to do.

[LeftyStrat]

So what DI/reamp do you use. I've been wanting to build one, but I haven't found that Jensen transformer for less than $60.

[Reeltarded]

I use radial DI's with those $60 Jensens.