Video of new production Trainwrecks

[selloutrr]

I have to question how many NOS parts where used on Elizabeth. Looking at the back shot you can see she is not using the traditional stancor/Pacific OT. The traditional OT's bell housing tappers down to the chassis mimicing the Stancor/chicago design.

As well as the strain relief and labels I know these in no effect the tone however it's just more distance between NOS and current production parts.


Sorry I probably just started shit on TGP.

[selloutrr]

Out of all the amps I have been able to document Ingrid is the only KF TW to use that square style OT. Which was produced in 1992. KF continued to build amps without using that style of OT. Gets me wondering why they were laying around the shop.

I can not confirm this 100% so it's purely speculation maybe someone else can chime in. Are the Heyboer OT's square or traditional bevel? If they are square that could explain the OEM Heyboer rumor, as well as the tonal difference we are hearing in the new production amps in relation to KF builds.

EDIT: I've recieved several PM about how the PT's look. I've added the Pic to help show the differences. Based on the dimpling on the vertical sides in pictures 2 and 3 the bell cover differences could very well be cosmetic IDK?

[selloutrr]

I just recieved an email: "You have received a warning at The Gear Page".

My attorney kindly replied to Big Mike's warning.

I'm in no mood to play high school.

If the seller posts an open ended statement they should expect some questions. It wasn't a Buddy bump. For $7500 (which is $2500 above retail) you sure as hell better know what you are selling/buying.

I should probably just buy the amp to post gut shots
or better yet voice it so sounds like a TW should. make a video and post a huge disclaimer about how to tweak the circuit. OK OK now i'm just as bad as TGP.. I digress.

Anyway, Thank you for posting the video's I didn't mean to side track the thread.

[vibratoking]

Sorry I probably just started shit on TAG.

I assume you meant TGP?

It isn't hard to get flagged, deleted, whatever over there. I actually think the mods over there are worse than the members. This is what I posted over there:

"+1 could be a great amp. I've heard that those amps appreciate by 50% every 6 months. Wish I had the money..."


That was deleted. That seller is a thief trying to capitalize on the TW name. I guess he wouldn't be the first.

[selloutrr]

Sorry I meant TGP It's auto pilot to type TAG

[selloutrr]

Who is Big Mike on TGP I want his phone #

[2tone]

Lots of talk and speculation on the new TW's. I don't think it's fair to criticize the sound and speculate that JM didn't voice it right etc. without playing one in person. Express's and Liverpools are hard to record properly. I can tell you that JM's voicing and tone characteristics are right on, and every amp will still be different, as they always have been. Before you revoice one based on some video, you best play it live, then compare it with one of Ken's amps..then you may be more accurate.. 7500 for a new amp that cost high 5K's may be fine for someone that would have a 2year wait for a new one, especially if they liked that particular amp's sound.. How much in parts for a 10k TwoRock?

I just recieved an email: "You have received a warning at The Gear Page".

My attorney kindly replied to Big Mike's warning.

I'm in no mood to play high school.

If the seller posts an open ended statement they should expect some questions. It wasn't a Buddy bump. For $7500 (which is $2500 above retail) you sure as hell better know what you are selling/buying.

I should probably just buy the amp to post gut shots
or better yet voice it so sounds like a TW should. make a video and post a huge disclaimer about how to tweak the circuit. OK OK now i'm just as bad as TGP.. I digress.

Anyway, Thank you for posting the video's I didn't mean to side track the thread.

[selloutrr]

[quote="2tone"] How much in parts for a 10k TwoRock? [quote]

are we talking about the TW clone? The kits were sold off for something silly like $600 raw parts and TwoRock still made a small profit.

based on what has been presented. I have to feel trainwreck circuits could step up and make demo's if they didn't feel the current one's offered painted a fair picture of the tone.
With that said. A/B all the sources you can find it's night and day. I'm not sure one is better then the other it's subjective to what you are trying to create but they are not the same.

I can't help but feel most of the people buying the new TW amps it's more about the fact they can say it's a licensed TW then anything else. Sort of like I spent more on my car then you did so I'm better. where as the guy driving the classis car is just that classic or timeless.

It'll take some time before the JM's are excepted. Most likely not to be mean or negative but after JM passed away. It'll only be once they can no longer be made or TW as a company whores out and goes mass production will this phase be adopted as legit. Keep in mind we still havent seen JM build anything that he couldn't copy from a bench amp KF built. Anyone on TAG can paint by numbers. I only know of a few that can truly create.

[vibratoking]

Lots of talk and speculation on the new TW's. I don't think it's fair to criticize the sound and speculate that JM didn't voice it right etc. without playing one in person. Express's and Liverpools are hard to record properly. I can tell you that JM's voicing and tone characteristics are right on, and every amp will still be different, as they always have been. Before you revoice one based on some video, you best play it live, then compare it with one of Ken's amps..then you may be more accurate..

I don't like the sound of the amp or the style of playing in the clip that was posted. I love the sound of Glenn's clips and his style of playing fits the amp IMO. Based on this, I don't think your statements concerning hearing it live are accurate, but we are all entitled to our opinion.

7500 for a new amp that cost high 5K's may be fine for someone that would have a 2year wait for a new one, especially if they liked that particular amp's sound..

You are right, it may be fine for someone. I don't happen to think it's an appropriate mark-up and I think that mark-up says something about the seller. There have been quite a few instances of this with other gear as well, Zendrive is one that comes immediately to mind. I believe that, "There's a sucker born every minute." and "A fool and his money are soon parted." both apply in this case. A 50% mark-up after 6 months is not ethical IMO. Any buyer that does his homework will realize that he can get a comparable or better sounding amp for about 20% of the asking price. Time will tell regarding how the prices of JM Wrecks rise/fall over time. I believe that a JM clone will never equal or exceed a KF Wreck on any terms.

[2tone]

While you shouldn't buy just for the official label, you should buy for the sound, whether a clone, a JM or a KF model. Jm isn't painting by numbers. He knows a lot more than most realize about the amps, and has made his own contributions, mods and even a 100 watt Express.. Definitely not cookie cutter. He knows all the parts theory and materials contribution, and has his ear to be the judge. He's not doing the clone an amp from a basket of parts. Sure, there may be even more accurate TAG clones built for less, and some will like their sound over a JM or an original for that matter. This stuff is pointless to debate. You can't be that accurate without playing all these varieties of Wrecks. Surely Ken could truly create, and so can JM. I have played lots of clones, and originals and 2 JM's. The price is what you feel is worth it to you. When I bought my first Express for 1150 it was trhe most expensive amp on the market and people said I was nuts and extravagant.. I didn't buy it to collect, i bought it for the sound...

How much in parts for a 10k TwoRock?

are we talking about the TW clone? The kits were sold off for something silly like $600 raw parts and TwoRock still made a small profit.

based on what has been presented. I have to feel trainwreck circuits could step up and make demo's if they didn't feel the current one's offered painted a fair picture of the tone.
With that said. A/B all the sources you can find it's night and day. I'm not sure one is better then the other it's subjective to what you are trying to create but they are not the same.

I can't help but feel most of the people buying the new TW amps it's more about the fact they can say it's a licensed TW then anything else. Sort of like I spent more on my car then you did so I'm better. where as the guy driving the classis car is just that classic or timeless.

It'll take some time before the JM's are excepted. Most likely not to be mean or negative but after JM passed away. It'll only be once they can no longer be made or TW as a company whores out and goes mass production will this phase be adopted as legit. Keep in mind we still havent seen JM build anything that he couldn't copy from a bench amp KF built. Anyone on TAG can paint by numbers. I only know of a few that can truly create.

[2tone]

I stand by my statement of playing the amps before you make a critique. I have listened to lots of samples and videos of all these amps, and based on this, and my experience of actually playing lots of originals, clones and 2 Jm's i can say you have to play them live. Anyone basing their critiques on internet videos etc is not getting the real picture. Period.. Yes you can get a similar amp for lots less, just like you can get any clone of a great amp or pedal for lots less. It's up to the ear of the buyer to determine that. If a 35 dollar tonebender sounds as good as a DAM or an original to you, then you are a lucky guy! If a TW clone sounds better than an original or a JM, you're in luck..I'm not so lucky

Lots of talk and speculation on the new TW's. I don't think it's fair to criticize the sound and speculate that JM didn't voice it right etc. without playing one in person. Express's and Liverpools are hard to record properly. I can tell you that JM's voicing and tone characteristics are right on, and every amp will still be different, as they always have been. Before you revoice one based on some video, you best play it live, then compare it with one of Ken's amps..then you may be more accurate..

I don't like the sound of the amp or the style of playing in the clip that was posted. I love the sound of Glenn's clips and his style of playing fits the amp IMO. Based on this, I don't think your statements concerning hearing it live are accurate, but we are all entitled to our opinion.

7500 for a new amp that cost high 5K's may be fine for someone that would have a 2year wait for a new one, especially if they liked that particular amp's sound..

You are right, it may be fine for someone. I don't happen to think it's an appropriate mark-up and I think that mark-up says something about the seller. There have been quite a few instances of this with other gear as well, Zendrive is one that comes immediately to mind. I believe that, "There's a sucker born every minute." and "A fool and his money are soon parted." both apply in this case. A 50% mark-up after 6 months is not ethical IMO. Any buyer that does his homework will realize that he can get a comparable or better sounding amp for about 20% of the asking price. Time will tell regarding how the prices of JM Wrecks rise/fall over time. I believe that a JM clone will never equal or exceed a KF Wreck on any terms.

[LeftyStrat]

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showth ... wreck+clip

Color me unimpressed. Maybe it was the recording, but it reminds me of my first scratch-built Express that I neutered trying to tame the wildness.

It just seems he's having to work way too hard to get it to bloom into feedback.

I'd love to see Glenn take one for a spin.

[selloutrr]

I can see how I come off sounding negative or bias toward JM.

I guess I find it insulting and frustrating how the estate has behaved and switched the stance on who can build a TW after all these years.

With all that BS a side though.. I've literally heard thousands of amplifiers in person. Studio, live, and recorded. When I heard a KF built TW it was a special moment. I don't feel that when I hear JM it reminds me of a held back Modern Vintage tone monster more then a traditional Trainwreck. MV tonemonsters are killer amps don't get me wrong.

Adding 2 more power tubes and a bigger OT is not something I would consider a mark by which to measure a builders skill. Just saying. Besides didn't someone on here build one and post a bunch of information on how to do it? Before JM even offered that as an option.

Bottom line I should be jaw dropped wide open going WOAH! For $5k. So far I haven't cared for what I've heard. IMHO the komet 60 kills the new builds.

I do agree the new jm clips - the player and playing style don't compliment the amps natural voicing. Lots of high gain want to be playing on a dynamic Texas blues / rock amp. Glen can most likely make any amp or guitar sound great because he understands how to interact with them.

I don't see the $7500 value (though he will take $6000). However if you play it and write a hit song on it from inspiration it becomes priceless. I've bought 30+ guitars just because I was inspired to play on them. The rest were investments, most of them sound stiff.

Ken's gift to building was making an amplifier that interacted and inspired the player.

[Colossal]

When I heard a KF built TW it was a special moment. I don't feel that when I hear JM it reminds me of a held back Modern Vintage tone monster more then a traditional Trainwreck.

While I don't have anywhere near the experience that many of you guys do in terms of exposure to all of these great hallmarks of rock and music history, the thing that jumps out at me with the recordings of the new production Trainwrecks is how they compare to Glen's recordings. Despite the 'insertion loss' of YouTube which is the common denominator in everything we've been discussing, you can see and hear the difference in Glen's videos immediately. To be most fair, I think it is important to reserve judgement until one has stood in front of a 4x12 with old Celestions with Orphan Annie on one side and a JM build on the other and Glen in the middle. I wish this could be arranged! But with Matt sitting in front of a 4x12 with those amps, I would have expected them to be howling and interacting more than we see.

Adding 2 more power tubes and a bigger OT is not something I would consider a mark by which to measure a builders skill. Just saying. Besides didn't someone on here build one and post a bunch of information on how to do it? Before JM even offered that as an option.

That was Allyn. He built the Stadium 80 for his client that needed to go one louder.

Ken's gift to building was making an amplifier that interacted and inspired the player.

I have continued to wonder, as I'm sure most of us have, what makes these amps so special. Can it be quantified? The circuit and components has been studied ad nauseum which is a testimony to the dedication of the students and the highest honor for KF. I continue to be inspired by his work and find myself learning new things which change my bias towards lines of thinking I have held as "the best way to do something" until now. I'm sure some of you have truly captured the sound. But so far I haven't heard a recording, aside from Glen's amp, and a very few others that seem to sound remarkably close to Orphan Annie. Of course tone is in the fingers so I might make Orphan Annie sound congested and uptight instead of relaxed and soaring as Glen does (I know how that sounds ).

[ampmike]

I wander if Glenn had any idea how huge those Youtubes would be one day.He defined those amps in stone.I would love to hear Glens clones one day.Again my express is OK but I wish we could have a TAG meet and hear everybodys and play some of the members build,Jus a thought,Mikey