I borrowed a decent mic

[mat]

Mat

Where did you buy the PS series Orange Drops and the Vishay Dale RN65 metal film resistors ?

Did you use the resistors in every part of the circuit ?

How did the tone change ?

Regards

A very nice American gentleman (in this group) sent me those resistors and caps. I used them almost all places. The plates are the most important place to use the resistors. I would say that the cap-change tamed down little bit of the harshness and the sound came closer to dumble, but it is VERY hard to say because there were couple of days between the change. Bob-I uses Xicon caps on his build and they sound very good. On my next build (HRM) I will try also the xicons + ordinary metalfilm resistors.
It is hard to say about the resistors, but I would believe that any metalfilm resistors comes pretty close to the sound.

[Bob-I]

It is hard to say about the resistors, but I would believe that any metalfilm resistors comes pretty close to the sound.

That hasen't been my experience. I tried Xicon metal filme resistors and thought it sounded pretty good, then dogears suggested the RN65's and the difference was dramatic. The overtones just jumped out at me, not really brighter but smoother highs and an overall richer tone.

[mat]

Mat, Again WOW! Julia is a sweet guitar as well!!!

I do have a question....after all the talk regarding the negative feedback loop. Did you make any adjusments?

Hi Keithrick, I did not tweak the NFB yet, but finished my first PAF-style humbucker today Will try to record something tomorrow

[hipbluescat]

Mat and Bob

For the PS orange drops series there is different voltages.

What voltages have you used ?

Are these polyster or polypropylene capacitors ?

Has anyone used this supplier
http://www.sbelectronics.com/productlines.htm

Regards

[mat]

Mat and Bob

For the PS orange drops series there is different voltages.

What voltages have you used ?

Are these polyster or polypropylene capacitors ?

Has anyone used this supplier
http://www.sbelectronics.com/productlines.htm

Regards

The OD's I used first were 715P600V. I replaced them with SBE 6PS-S10 600V's.

hipbluescat: All in all I think I'll use the Vishay Dale RN65's (still have few) on my next build. Just to be safe

[Sven]

Greetings,

It is stated on this forum that Vishay Dale RN65 resistors, metal film, are desirable. However, on colored layouts there are several types of resistors drawn. One could easily assume that Power supply resistors, the ones rated 2W or 3W and such, are to be metal oxide types, while it is not quite clear which of the two drawn types are metal film and which are carbon film and such, in other circuits? Could that be established?

Second, it is stated on this forum that preferrence is towards use of SBE Orange drop PS capacitors. Those are polyester capacitors, rated 400V and 600V. OK, but what is the story with Xicon MPP series, that are polypropylene resistors, and how do they compare to the Orange drops PS series? Or, are there parts of networks that could use one vs. the other type (Orange drop PS vs. Xicon MPP) of capacitors?

Would someone clarify.

Regarding the subject of this thread, one should state that the ¨sloppy 96¨ sound clip is the best sounding sound clip IMO, on this forum, and therefore qualifies this particular schematics of this particular amplifier as the best one for this type of sound, as played by the guitarist. That is as much as small computer speakers can reveal ... but, those are the same conditions used to listen to other clips as well ...

Therefore, the questions are:

Is this Hybrid A schmatic? By the way, according to statements from some other earlier theread, Hybrid A schematic is the same as Non-HRM schematic. Is that true? Anyway, what exactly is the schematic of this particular good sounding amplifier? Shall it, or shall it not be revealed? If not, OK, fine ... if yes, can it be done here, in THIS thread ... without references to other threads, files, etc.? Without the runaround. If it is personal confidence, fine, but if not, can it be done without the runaround. After all, THIS particular sound is merely MY own favorite, which does not mean that other people like it as much, or whatever ...

Needless to say, the clip in question sounds good also due to the fact that the playing is good, and that the instrument sounds-preforms good, obviously ... while the only objection for this type of amp demonstration sound clips, is that the recording is way too wet (too much reverb). Demonstration of an amp is much better with no reverb, or, perhaps, just a bit of reverb from the amplifier itself.

In my particular case, I would NOT like to have the version of this amplifier with a reverb. I would like to have as simple as possible, passive (supposedly) FX loop. The FX loop would really not need any boost, since it would be used for plugging in an analog delay type of guitar pedal. It seems that if guitar signal is sufficient to drive such a pedal, it would obviously be well ¨supplied¨ with a signal from the first amplification stage (is that where passive FX loops are introduced in these amps?).

All the best,

Sven



[/img]

[mat]

Hi Sven,

It is stated on this forum that Vishay Dale RN65 resistors, metal film, are desirable. However, on colored layouts there are several types of resistors drawn. One could easily assume that Power supply resistors, the ones rated 2W or 3W and such, are to be metal oxide types, while it is not quite clear which of the two drawn types are metal film and which are carbon film and such, in other circuits? Could that be established?

I think my build has carbonfilm dropping string resistors.

Second, it is stated on this forum that preferrence is towards use of SBE Orange drop PS capacitors. Those are polyester capacitors, rated 400V and 600V. OK, but what is the story with Xicon MPP series, that are polypropylene resistors, and how do they compare to the Orange drops PS series? Or, are there parts of networks that could use one vs. the other type (Orange drop PS vs. Xicon MPP) of capacitors?

On my Express build the Xicons were little bit smoother than the OD715's IMO. I have explained the change from 715's to PS of my OD-build on this thread.

Would someone clarify.

I'm sure You can find a lot relating to this with the search function, but of cource its very nice to read more comments regarding to the ultimate caps for the build.

Regarding the subject of this thread, one should state that the ¨sloppy 96¨ sound clip is the best sounding sound clip IMO, on this forum, and therefore qualifies this particular schematics of this particular amplifier as the best one for this type of sound, as played by the guitarist. That is as much as small computer speakers can reveal ... but, those are the same conditions used to listen to other clips as well ...

Don't know about the playing (it IS sloppy) but I'm quite happy how the amp sounds nowdays

Therefore, the questions are:

Is this Hybrid A schmatic? By the way, according to statements from some other earlier theread, Hybrid A schematic is the same as Non-HRM schematic. Is that true? Anyway, what exactly is the schematic of this particular good sounding amplifier? Shall it, or shall it not be revealed? If not, OK, fine ... if yes, can it be done here, in THIS thread ... without references to other threads, files, etc.? Without the runaround. If it is personal confidence, fine, but if not, can it be done without the runaround. After all, THIS particular sound is merely MY own favorite, which does not mean that other people like it as much, or whatever ...

Again, explained on this thread..

Needless to say, the clip in question sounds good also due to the fact that the playing is good, and that the instrument sounds-preforms good, obviously ... while the only objection for this type of amp demonstration sound clips, is that the recording is way too wet (too much reverb). Demonstration of an amp is much better with no reverb, or, perhaps, just a bit of reverb from the amplifier itself.

From the first post of this thread:

Reverb is from the amp. Delay added in Cubase.

In couple of places You can hear the amps feedback (that I like so much ) - don't take that as reverb

In my particular case, I would NOT like to have the version of this amplifier with a reverb. I would like to have as simple as possible, passive (supposedly) FX loop. The FX loop would really not need any boost, since it would be used for plugging in an analog delay type of guitar pedal. It seems that if guitar signal is sufficient to drive such a pedal, it would obviously be well ¨supplied¨ with a signal from the first amplification stage (is that where passive FX loops are introduced in these amps?).

I was not happy by putting my reverb on 'passive' loop. I leave this on the more experienced fellows.

All the best,

Sven

Same to You,

[mat]

More sounclip terror

Now I recorded at same time with the Sennheiser and 'ballended' Shure Beta 57A (which still is not the 57 that most use for recording).

First with Sennheiser:

http://media.putfile.com/sennheiser-63

Then with the Shure:

http://media.putfile.com/shure

The Shure is much more clear. I just have to get me THE 57..

Which one do You prefer ?

Pickup was just born DIY-PAF with alnico5 magnet and DCResistance of 8.7kOhm.

Gain increase was again with the guitars volume pot.

Both:

http://media.putfile.com/shurebeta57a

Master volume was below 1 more like 0.5 - that is why the sound is not so good and there is not much feedback going on. It gets much better when in about 2+. (neighbours..sigh..)

cheers,

[Sven]

Greetigns,

Sennheiser 441 microphone is considered to be a better microphone in relation to Shure 57 by certain purely technical standards. It is also much more expensive. Shure 57 is much more popular, and actually in many situations more liked in studios and on live stages due to its character. Shure 57 is the most frequently used microphone for recording of snare drums, for example, and even more for live stages, due to the fact that its low price, general availability and most of all appropriate chearacteristcs make it a favorite for many people.

Well, it seems that Shure 57 has also become a standard for recording sound clips, particularly with valve guitar amplifiers ... and that is why it is not that much important which mic is better, Sennheiser 441 or Shure 57, but, rather, and very obviously, one should use of Shure 57 to achieve an even playing ground for comparing various clips from various sources. It has extended its life in internet age ... it is a survivor mic.

That is why one should basically stick to Shure 57. It is a cheap microphone; one should not have a problem finding a new one (or good used one, as well) in ANY country.

The sound of this guitar and this amp is really good ... so far the best demonstrated here ...

Thanks for the answers to the above questions of general and specific nature. I only hope that someone shall soon write a recommendation based on experience and high quality sound ... as to which types of components are the best for particular schmatics -- perhaps presented with layouts rather than schematics. Those recommendations should be drawn in colors ... where Orange drops PS would be in their notorious color with PS written on caps in the layout, while Xicon MPP would be, say, brown, ... than the carbon film resistors would be beige, for example, and the metal film resitors would be in some other color with RN65 marked on the layout perhaps to associate it with a certain color.

Usually metal oxide resistors are recommended for Power supplies, for safety reasons (Aiken recommendation).

I would, however, really appreciate if a link is pointed to the proper schematics and layout of this amp, or, perhaps, a personal message is sent so that I can see it. Namely, it is rather hard discerning which version is which on this forum.

Can we define one issue: Is Hybid A schematics (the one from the ¨Bassman D¨ thread in ¨Dumble Files¨ by Normster¨ https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.php?t=892

the same as the Non-HRM schematics?

Or what is the schematics that this is based on?

All the best,

Sven

[Normster]

Sven, I don't think there is any secret to Mat's great sounding amp, other than a lot of hard work and experimentation. There are many good layouts in the "Files" section of this forum. Most of them are based on the Hybrid-A schematic but there are a few others for the HRM as well.

I don't think it would be practical to try to answer all of your questions in this thread, but if you go back and browse through the many posts on this forum you will find a wealth of information. Most of the really hard work of building one of these amps is in the research it takes to understand the circuit. So far, I think we have all been too lazy to put all of that information in one concise diagram.

[Tonegeek]

Greetigns,

I only hope that someone shall soon write a recommendation based on experience and high quality sound ... as to which types of components are the best

Sven, I just finished a build and will share in a nutshell what many have told me as I researched my project:

This is from Gary, (www.glaswerks.com) a respected member of this forum (others say the same):
Use the PS series Orange drops (not 715 or 716). XICON MPP is good too and smaller/cheaper. Dumble used pretty much what ever he had around in some areas of the amps. In other areas he was very specific. In his older amps he used PS series thought out. In the new amps he typically runs the XICON MPP and sometimes PS (or 715's)in the phase invertor. You can get away with 715's in the phase invertor as they do not impart that much "tone" in that section of the amp. Use Vishay Dale RN65's for the plate resistors for the Clean and Overdrive stages. You can also use 1W carbon films and achieve very good results. The rest of the amp I would use a high quality metal film (I use KOA for my commercial amps) or 1W carbon films. 1/2 watt carbon films do not work as there is too much hiss. Also stay away from XICON metal films for the signal path. I might suspect that Carbon comps may be a little noisy due to the overall, gain of the amp. Gary also recommends Heyboer, Marshall and Fender replacement trannies.

Many people recommend the cheap ceramic discs over silver micas (the opposite of some other amp builders) for the caps in the picofarad range.
Some other opinions:
--HRM build sounds better with Humbuckers, non-HRM (Hybrid-A) is better for single coil PUPS.
--200 volts seems to be the magic plate voltage for the preamp tubes in this amp.
--Rock/Jazz switch is not very popular
--

The Hybrid-A schematic (in the files section) seems to be a great starting point. I used the ODS-101 schematic (in the files section) as the basis for my HRM build, with no problems. There are several versions of this floating around, but they all look good enough to do the job. I built mine with the precision power supply but that is probably overkill (although the cost may be less). Most people seem to like the older, simpler power supply.

Bottom line: This will get you a working Dumble. You may still have to tweak it for your ears. That is part of the Dumble philosophy - he tailored each amp to the player, so hardly any two are alike. good luck.

[Sven]

Greetings,

Thanks to everyone who contributed to a better understanding of this subject. As a ¨thank you gift¨, I shall post a link here of what I consider to be the best (THE HOLLY GRAIL) of this type of sound.

The song/clip is called ¨Give me my pink nickle back¨ -- and the playing, the musicality, and the SOUND of the lead guitar (and the background, as well) is abosolutely AMAZING ! My idea of the HOLLY GRAIL of sound. This is my greeting to the Forum. Enjoy!

http://robinguitars.com/sounds.htm

[heisthl]

Disclamer: I like the clip(RobinGuitars) and the playing so NO FLAMES PLEASE - but, methinks this is a "Grail" tone of a different color than what this group probably means when it uses the term. When I see the term "grail tone" on this website I'm thinking of the RF or LC tonality. where in spite of the full range tone, great sustain and overtones some of the "real" guitar comes through as part of the tone. Just MHO

[Sven]

Disclamer: I like the clip(RobinGuitars) and the playing so NO FLAMES PLEASE - but, methinks this is a "Grail" tone of a different color than what this group probably means when it uses the term. When I see the term "grail tone" on this website I'm thinking of the RF or LC tonality. where in spite of the full range tone, great sustain and overtones some of the "real" guitar comes through as part of the tone. Just MHO

Greetings,

I hear you! And, yes, I can agree with you that one could indeed do better as far as the guitar tone coming through. That is why I am looking at this amplifier that is closer to what you suggest, rather than what is demonstrated on this sound clip ... closer to what is being discussed on this thread (and on this forum) -- perhaps mostly because I am also ¨too old to shred and too young to die¨ (¨Jethro Tull¨, anyone?).

That is why I need a starting point for this general specification of a ¨D-type¨ (this forum) amp:

D-amp specification

1. The Non-HRM (is that same/similar to Hybrid A?) schematics to be the same as the amp with which ¨sloppy 96¨ sound clip was recorded by Mr. Mat. Also, similar layout.
2. Standard JJ 6L6 output valves. Perhaps an option for use of 6V6 and EL34?
Question: Is the same/similar sound possible with EL34 instead of 6L6 valves - or are the 6L6 valves unavoidable factor in this particular sound as demonstrated on the clip?
3. No jazz/rock switch. Wired for Rock, only.
4. Mid-boost (pedal switch, also, most likely).
5. PAB needed, with pedal switch, as well as Front panel switch.
6. No reverb.
7. Passive, switchable (in/out, bypass) FX loop (used for analog delay guitar pedal, only).
8. Most appropriate brands of resistors and capacitors.
9. Choke in the Power supply.
10. Metallized polypropylene Solen Fast (or Mundorf) capacitors in the Power supply (instead of Electrolytics).
11. Pedal switching to overdriven sound (pedal OD switch) – as well as Fron panel switch.
12. PT with 220V AC option (Europe).
13. High quality OT.


All the best,

Sven

[pamaz67]

Hi Sven.
Still don't have attempted to make an Hi End supply with the Solen MPP caps, but have to say that I've tried a carr rambler that afaik is made with solen caps in the supply, and the feeling of playing such an amp is very nice .
I mean, I'm not comparing the sound, that is definitely another planet, but the dynamic and pick response.
Carr is slightly faster than the dumble clones I've made so far, that in any case (out of the carr) are light years faster than any other amp I've tried, including bogner, egnater, cae and other hi priced gear that from time to time i have available (let's say that sometimes I work for the italian distributor of these brands)
The carr rambler extraordinary pick response , could lie also in the fast supply, so I was thinking to test it in my dclones.
If you are faster than me in building a clone with that PS, pls. post your impressions.
Ciao

Paolo