Gibson Factory Raided at Gun point

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talbany
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Location: Dumbleland

Re: Gibson Factory Raided at Gun point

Post by talbany »

Why in the world should a private citizen have to prove that the wood on his guitar or other instrument is not in violation of the many laws pertaining to endangered species?
Tom
Enter the Lacey Act..

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant_health/ ... ds/faq.pdf

Just because there's not yet a list of documented seizures (Lacey's last phase, which applies to pianos and guitars, was implemented only a short time ago, April 1, 2010) doesn't change the hard cold fact that Lacey regulations demand that “any shipment requiring a permit” may not be cleared informally regardless of how small its size or value (no de minimis exceptions: Q&A no. 9). Also problematic is that there's no "innocent owner exception": Q&A no. 30. Enforcement is allowed to use discretion, but the potential for abuse is unlimited unless these regulations can be modified.

Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
bcook
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Re: Gibson Factory Raided at Gun point

Post by bcook »

All of this makes me wonder if the value of my Brazilian D-28 just went through the roof or through the basement. Express your concerns to your congressional representative. There is an election coming...
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Cantplay
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Re: Gibson Factory Raided at Gun point

Post by Cantplay »

Why would the burden of proof be on someone in what any reasonable person would say is legitimate posession?

Isn't our system based on a presumption of innocence?

John
kevster
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Re: Gibson Factory Raided at Gun point

Post by kevster »

Cantplay wrote:Isn't our system based on a presumption of innocence?

John
Used to be.
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Structo
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Re: Gibson Factory Raided at Gun point

Post by Structo »

Hey, how about that grain! :D

[img:480:640]http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m211 ... 000193.jpg[/img]
Last edited by Structo on Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tom

Don't let that smoke out!
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NickC
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Re: Gibson Factory Raided at Gun point

Post by NickC »

NEjoe wrote: .....................

But really what disturbs me more than anything is use of this event to springboard into all sorts of unconnected political dogma and police state nightmare predictions of doom; the downright paranoid responses by some of the people on this very board.


................... For some misplaced reason I thought amp builders were better than this ..........................

Those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
CHIP
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Re: Gibson Factory Raided at Gun point

Post by CHIP »

I had a psychology professor that used to say "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean their not watching you." :lol:
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NickC
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Re: Gibson Factory Raided at Gun point

Post by NickC »

Not the best picture, but ......

[img:1728:2304]http://homepage.mac.com/swamptone/TeleOne.JPG[/img]

Neck is quarter-sawn maple. The fingerboard is Brazilian Pau Ferro. I couldn't find any prohibitions on the internet about Pau Ferro. Maybe it will become a viable alternative to rosewood/ebony.
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Reeltarded
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Re: Gibson Factory Raided at Gun point

Post by Reeltarded »

Cantplay wrote:Why would the burden of proof be on someone in what any reasonable person would say is legitimate posession?

Isn't our system based on a presumption of innocence?

John
No. Popularity of certain political views and hopefully something to confiscate and add to the governments spreadsheet. They add all these to a list that makes the environmentalists go wild at the press release.

It's like science, and funding. Same crap. Have a look at the US particle accelerator that leaked finding stuff that CERN can't even find, but at exponentially less energies.

By the way, they were scheduled for defunding, and they were defunded in the next 30 days, I believe.

"To Cordon and Investigate"... best you get.
Signatures have a 255 character limit that I could abuse, but I am not Cecil B. DeMille.
10thTx
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Re: Gibson Factory Raided at Gun point

Post by 10thTx »

I couldn't find any prohibitions on the internet about Pau Ferro. Maybe it will become a viable alternative to rosewood/ebony.
Pau Ferro is a much brighter tone wood than indian rosewood and is perhaps closer to ebony (as you suggested) or maple.

I've also got a Tele with a Pau Ferro fingerboard & previously had a rosewood on the same instrument.

With respect, 10thtx
ER
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Re: Gibson Factory Raided at Gun point

Post by ER »

Finger board-fret board...

Gibson needs to build one fretless guitar and have Kimock or Kazumi Wantanabe show up and play it in court.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXj8CK0nXps

Glad to see that all this kind of garbage with Gov overstepping is fairly common knowledge, hopefully it will spawn some change sooner than later.

India probably doesn't want to get into it over a protection of jobs issue with the U.S., I'm sure they're happy to give up a little menial finish work for thousands of IT and tele jobs.
talbany
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Re: Gibson Factory Raided at Gun point

Post by talbany »

It's Already happening!!

http://www.fretboardjournal.com/feature ... ion-treaty
Quote from the article
"Vintage-guitar guru George Gruhn amplifies Davis-Wallen’s concerns. “Look, this thing is a nightmare,” he says. “It’s cumbersome, illogical and nearly unintelligible. It’s hard enough to figure out what permits to obtain in the U.S., but it’s almost impossible to figure out the necessary permits to get a guitar in and out of another country...To avoid such nightmares, George Gruhn has simply stopped shipping internationally".

My sources all say the same thing that figuring out these permits and declarations are virtually impossible and even those departments in the Govt don't fully understand them..I've shipped many amps overseas and even the paperwork on those are complicated enough..

Funny how something like imported wood can be so tightly regulated and yet leave something as damaging as mortgage backed securities (that were later shorted) go virtually unregulated., the very thing that's put our economy in the state it's in now and will be dealing with for generations..Remember Lehman Bros!! and DOW 6000!!
What so ironic about this is we the tax payers bailed many of these banks out when those securities went toxic...Now the govt is suing these banks WE SAVED!! for illegal loans http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/stor ... nkbailout/

If they win our tax dollars used to save these company's out goes right back to the Govt... Do you think we will see any of it if they win..Pretty good scheme Huh!!

http://www.npr.org/2011/09/02/140153932 ... -mortgages

Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
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SoundPerf
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Re: Gibson Factory Raided at Gun point

Post by SoundPerf »

All this is really going to make those with capital want to invest it and create jobs, right? :cry:

If it's not a gov't job with greedy little union fingers in it, they won't materialize.

On Thursday there's going to be a speech about how we're going to get "jobs" going again. Besides it being the same song and dance, it's all going to be untrue.

P.S.
After the above I had a few more paragraphs about world affairs, but realized it would be too "crazy" and deleted them. :wink:

P.S.S.
In a couple weeks I'm going to the PRS open house for the 3rd year in a row. It will be interesting to hear what Paul has to say about all this. I wonder if he took all his beautiful wood stash and put in a hidden bunker somewhere.
Last edited by SoundPerf on Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Chris
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Structo
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Re: Gibson Factory Raided at Gun point

Post by Structo »

The world is rapidly becoming full of oxymoron's where wrong becomes right and right becomes wrong.

It's almost like they would rather concentrate on the crap that really doesn't matter that much right now.

Let's get this economy going, create jobs, improve our quality of life.

I think we are on a slippery slope right now and things seem to be eroding more and more every day.
Tom

Don't let that smoke out!
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butwhatif
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Re: Gibson Factory Raided at Gun point

Post by butwhatif »

Let's get this country going? -these folks will never let it happen-and don't care. They don't like students, young people, exactly the people they should be empowering-

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/ne ... g-20110830
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