Effects Loop for 2204 (Marshall) - do all options reek?

[cruisemates]

I love the 2204 sound - but I need an effects loop. I was just talking to my amp tech and he said that he has never heard a good 2004 effects loop. The main problem (he says) is that you can easily build one for line level (rack mount) gear - but for pedals the designs out there just don't cut it.

Is this the general experience of the knowledgable crowd here as well?

I know I have seen designs for them online - some with tubes, some not. He said some people have had luck using Op Amps, but then you lose the tube sound.

What do you all think? I KNOW this is the best place to ask.

[myfoot]

Haven't used one of these yet , but those who have seem to love them.

http://metroamp.com/store/index.php?mai ... cts_id=499

[cruisemates]

Let me ask to those who may know. It is really important to me that I am able to use this loop with a pedal set for a volume boost.

Lets say my pre-amp volume is on full already. If I insert something that adds gain (An EQ pedal set to add volume) am I going to get a boost in volume, or am I just going to push the preamp harder (which, when the amp preamp is already being set on full will not give me a volume boost).

I mean to say this - if you have a Marshall pre-amp already set to full gain, then adding an overdrive pedal will not give you more volume - the pre-amp can only take so much. Will the metroamps loop on a 2204 allow me to use an EQ pedal to make output the amp louder?

I currently use a 2205 effects loop and it is built so that I can use a 10-band MXR Graphic EQ to boost the output of the power amp as much as I want. I do this so my leads will cut through on stage in a situation where the soundman has fallen asleep.

Will this loop on a 2204 work the same way? Or is it set up mostly for non-volume gain pedals like delays, chorus, etc?

Sorry for the lack of technical ability on my part. This is a simple question, I just hope I phrased in a way that makes sense.

[jjman]

You could set the pedal to reduce volume so that it's "boosting" when off. It's an upside-down approach but would certainly function properly as a volume changer. The EQ shaping would be active in the lower-volume mode which may or may not be better. If you scoop this eq the high-volume mode would have more mids in addition to volume.

I use a parallel loop but it’s only for Reverb/Delay. You need serial for volume changing.

[plexitone]

Most loops (including the Metro one) are right before the PI so you should be able to get a good volume boost there. The boosted return level may overdrive the PI tube a little but it should give you a significant volume boost, unlike boosting in front of an overdriven amp.

For what it's worth, I know the designer of the Metro loop and he REALLY knows what he's doing. It's far from a "home made" kit. Tons of people have given solid reviews and use it with pedals and rack gear.

Metro kit instructions:
http://home.comcast.net/~jbjdav26/Loop% ... %201B4.pdf

[Reeltarded]

But.. but.. but.

I tried four times to answer this, but I can't speak kindly about adding pedals in loops.

[Deric]

I've installed the Metro loop in a scratch build 2204. Sounds great. Have A/B'd it in and out of the circuit (it comes with a bypass switch) at various volume levels and noticed very little (if any) change in tone and ZERO change in feel (which is more important to me).

It works great with an EQ or boost pedal for a volume boost. Thought about adding a relay to switch the loop out....maybe someday.

Stock they are designed to run at pedal level - they can make it line level at request. I asked about the difference as I would love to mod it to make it switchable between pedal and line level but never got a response....

Still, it's a great product and works as advertised.

[IMG:160:120]http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e243/stumper1/AFB%2050/th_AFB50019.jpg[/img]

[cruisemates]

Thank you for the replies = I do believe I got my point across and got the answers I needed. I found out my tech (who is well-respected here) generally builds everything from scratch (loops etc) and he said the 2204 was the one amp he could never crack. But I guess that is why Metroamps is so popular, He had never heard of it so i sent him a link.

[Tone Lover]

1 of the problems with the 2204 is everyone wants to put the effects loop after the master volume it has to much of a swing he would have no problem if he stuck it before the master volume, seems to be the biggest mistake everyone makes. also most tube effects loops have to much gain in the circuit so it has be dialed in very carefully to balance this out between the two.
Bill

[topbrent]

I have wondered how the single triode effects loop return buffer that Doug Hoffman used in his H50 would sound.
Basically a hot rod 2203'ish design with a FX loop that is pre-MV.

Perhaps someone can decipher some nuggets from the layout.

[img:515:383]http://www.el34world.com/Hoffman/images/H50pre.gif[/img]

[cruisemates]

I got the 4010 back from my tech with the Metroamp loop and it sounds just really great. The loop works exactly as I wanted it to work - all of my pedals do exactly as I want - I ended up barely even changing any settings I had on them from my previous amp.

The tech said "In the end I figured out I was being overly cautious, I could have just put the loop in as the schematic shows and it would have worked fine - but I did not want to do anything that could damage the amp."

He said "I'm going to charge you the same I would charge someone if I had already done 10 of these before" (knew all the variables) - so it cost me $80.

Now - this guy is very busy, and to me that showed a real commitment to great customer service.

I also have Kudos for the loop itself - it works great. Thanks to all who helped here - I did forward him the things you posted and I assume he did use them to get it installed correctly.

As far as where it goes - it does go pre-master volume, and that is where you want it. Yes, it is a bit of a hassle if you want play a lower volumes to have to just barely crank the MV pot - but it works great so no reason to complain.