Scratch TW Express Build Bad Idea for Relative Noob?

[The New Steve H]

My friend the blues guitarist wanted me to build him a Super Reverb clone. Then he wanted a Dumble clone. Now he likes the Trainwreck Express. Wonder if I could ask a noob question.

The idea of building from scratch appeals to my friend because of the cost. I told him I was more likely to blow up the amp or ruin the chassis if we worked from scratch, so he knows the risks. But here is something someone just told me in the Tech Discussion area:

If you spend some time reading the TW section of the forum, you'll quickly realize that the Express is not difficult to copy, but is very difficult to clone. Apparently, lead dress, component location, transformers, and all sorts of other things contribute to the unique sound of this particular amp. In case your friend doesn't realize it, this is a high gain amp complete with typical high gain "issues" if they surface.

Does this mean building from scratch is a horrible idea for a new amp builder, or does it just mean I should stick closely to existing layouts? I just completed my third amp, a 5f6a clone that sounds incredible, so I know a little bit about amps, but not enough to make me comfortable taking a substantial risk of wasting $400 of someone else's cash.

Right now we're talking about using a Dirty Dawg aluminum chassis and slapping a thin wooden faceplate on it with nice lacquer and waterslide graphics and legends.

The alternative is to get a Ceriatone Package 1, but my friend is not made of money, and he would like to save a little if possible. I should add that he is hoping to use this amp for gigging; he is beginning his professional career.

[Zippy]

My friend the blues guitarist wanted me to build him a Super Reverb clone. Then he wanted a Dumble clone. Now he likes the Trainwreck Express. Wonder if I could ask a noob question.

The question should probably be "What amp do I suggest to someone who apparently doesn't know what he wants?"

Given your limited build history and troubleshooting skills, I'd not suggest building an Express "freehand". Sure, you might try a different layout but what happens when you get excessive noise or parasitic oscillations?

What kind of tones is your friend hoping to achieve? How does an Express fit a blues context?

I'm back to suggesting that you start with a Rocket and consider driving it with EL34 or KT66. The Rocket is a much more forgiving amp to build and a lot more pedal friendly as well.

[The New Steve H]

If it were my amp, I'd be building another 5f6a! I love that thing. But it's not up to me. I can't tell him to pay for a Rocket.

I don't want to build an Express from a blank slate. I'm just asking if it's risky to build one from an existing layout, like the Ceriatone clone.

[vibratoking]

I'm just asking if it's risky to build one from an existing layout, like the Ceriatone clone.

It depends on what you mean by risky. Risky as in will it be a complete waste of time and money? Or it won't function? Or it won't sound right? Or you will electrocute yourself? IF you understand how every part of that design works and you know how to source the parts, then you should be able to pull-off a scratch build. If not, then I would suggest a kit is a better bet.

[Weathered]

Everything I've read about the Express/Liverpool says that they are very sensitive to lead dress. In your 5F6A thread, you said that the lead dress may have been causing noise issues in that amp. I think that common wisdom is that if your lead dress is messy, you will end up with a noisy and/or oscillating Express. There are board kits out there that you could work from, or you could roll your own board and avoid Ceriatone.

I agree with Zippy that your friend needs to look at what the amps he requested too. They are 3 very different amps, all good, but drastically different. If he's looking to gig an Express, he may want to be smart about the volume - these are known to be very loud amps, and as a former sound guy, there is nothing worse than a guitarist who needs to be way too loud for the room to get "his tone".

[The New Steve H]

The 5f6a was built completely from scratch. Chassis, two circuit boards I cut on a table saw...the works. I had some hum from the heaters, but I fiddled with the lead dress and stuck a humdinger on the heater leads, and now it's fine. It probably would have sounded better in the first place, had I read Merlin Blencowe's book. I copied other people's heater wiring, and according to him, they were doing it wrong.

I used two layouts; one from Fender and one from Weber.

When I say "risk" I mean the possibility that I will build something that sounds awful and can't be fixed without starting over.

[Zippy]

When I say "risk" I mean the possibility that I will build something that sounds awful and can't be fixed without starting over.

Risk of failure is greater with the Express than many other amps.

[M Fowler]

Merlin Blencowe knows a lot but I have never seen some of his wiring ideas in practical use, just saying.

Reading is fine but build experience is better in my opinion.

Yes you can build an Express following the Ceriatone or TAG layout/schematic into the DDawg chassis. But make darn sure you follow lead dress or you will have a mess on your hands.

Mark

[The New Steve H]

His info on grounding was very helpful, as was the humdinger and the thing about avoiding making big heater-wire loops around the tube sockets.

I'm inclined to think that if I have a Ceriatone chassis, I will be okay, because it will tell me where to put the components in order to avoid noise and oscillation.

[Gibsonman63]

If you take it on, there is some great information here to work from. Download the build guide and really focus on the lead dress. There are tons of theads documenting Express builds. Reading through them, one thing that stands out is that a lot of people spend more time troubleshooting them than building. Take your time and post pictures of your progress and these guys will help you through it.

[The New Steve H]

Is there a PDF anywhere that I can use to locate holes on a chassis? I hate to pay for shipping from Malaysia if I can just glue a PDF to a box and start cutting.

Edit: I found it in the files area.

[M Fowler]

You have two suppliers of TW chassis on this forum Allynmey and rjguitar?

Why use Ceriatone?

I used thin Hammond chassis on several builds and they worked great for the last three years too.

Mark

[The New Steve H]

I don't care who sells it, as long as it's a good product. I don't know everyone here yet.

[Reeltarded]

Good luck satisfying a cloudy dream.

He wants a Fender amp. Tell him to buy a Fender amp. Save yourself, and tell him to practice more than searching YouTube.

Just a hunch.

[Gibsonman63]

I don't care who sells it, as long as it's a good product. I don't know everyone here yet.

Download the BOM. The suppliers are listed.