Trying to make my build decision

[Luke Duke]

So I'm really torn on what I'm going to build. I've got plenty of time to spend on the project so I want this build to end up as something I can gig with and record with, but it doesn't have to get done quick.

I'm thinking of building either

(A) An Express Clone

(B) Tweed Bandmaster

(C) David Allen Brown Sugar.

The problem I've run into is I've never played through/heard these amps in person so I'm kind of at a loss because I'm not sure any of these will be what I want, but I feel like I've got some amps that should do what I want. You guys tell me what you think, and whether or not an Express Clone would fit my bill.

1 around 30 watts---in needs to be louder than my Dr. Z Mar Jr, but not as loud as my Marshall 2204.

2 Natural (read non-constipated) sounding OD

3 Touch Sensitive I want to be able to back off of my attack and the amp clean up

4 That singing quality, especially for solos

5 A good amount of OD I don't want a meat grinder like a Recto or anything but a good amount of OD.

I plan on pairing the amp up with 3X10s more than likely, or 2X10s and 1X12.

Thanks for the help in advance.

Luke

[Icetech]

express....

[CathodeBiased]

You want a lot of conflicting qualities in an amp. IMHO, you should back off on requirement #5 as it will cause you to make significant compromises on requirements #1-4 (i.e., you will end up with “Boogie Disease”). I have yet to find a high-gain amp that has excellent clean and/or medium gain tones.

[CathodeBiased]

express....

The Express has very little clean headroom. It is a distortion machine.

[Luke Duke]

You want a lot of conflicting qualities in an amp. IMHO, you should back off on requirement #5 as it will cause you to make significant compromises on requirements #1-4 (i.e., you will end up with “Boogie Disease”). I have yet to find a high-gain amp that has excellent clean and/or medium gain tones.

I'm not opposed to cranking the amp, but when I turn down my guitar volume I want to be able to get some cleanish/semi-dirty tones.

I don't want boogie disease that's for sure!

I had to leave earlier let me define my tone preference a bit more.

I really like to play my amp. You guys know what I mean when I say that on certain amps it feels like an extension of the guitar. That's the trick I'm looking for. I get that out of my Dr. Z but it has to be beat into submission with OD pedals and to get the drive I'm looking for. Second problem is that I need a bit more power, like I said around 30 watts into some medium-high sensitivity speakers should do anything I want.

I'm wanting nominal bass, kind of a rounded off sounding....maybe ragged would be a good term. I'm playing blues rock to some harder stuff, but nothing outrageous, I'm not looking for a Bogner, or Recto high gain tone, but I am wanting more than in my Maz Jr, or significantly more than my BF and SF Fenders. I played a Boyden 45/30 the other day it was on about the same page that I'm on, except I'm fine with cranking an amp up to get everything really cooking.

BTW can you guys tell me any songs that we know a Wreck was used on? I've been told a lot of Bryan Adams stuff uses wrecks. Also on the new Bon Jovi album Sambora thanks Trainwreck Amps....so any idea what songs one was used on?

I realize this is hard because you guys are trying to describe the color orange to a blind guy.

Thanks again guys!

Luke

[Icetech]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=IKSH_KUoJPc

try that:)

[jaysg]

1 around 30 watts---in needs to be louder than my Dr. Z Mar Jr, but not as loud as my Marshall 2204.

You might be a candidate for a 36Watt with power scaling. If you own or can borrow an attenuator, plug it into the second output jack on your 2204 -- not in series with the cab. That should be the volume level you want. I see the problem with using different cabinets, if the attenuator is a fixed Z.

[sliberty]

The TW, when built stock, has very little clean, although it cleans up a lot by lowering the guitar volume. I bult mine with a few minor mods that tramed the amp quite a bit, while still retaining the ability to be insane. Its a great amp, and you'll love it forever.

[gearhead]

Another possibility is a Trainwreck Liverpool, especially with a half power switch.

[rfgordon]

My first build gave me pretty much what you want. I used the Ceriatone Lightning layout, but used a cathode bias 6L6 power section. I monkeyed with the cathode resistor values on V1 to get more aggression, but it turned into an amp that can morph from jazz to blues to classic rock. I used iron from Allen amps. Sounds great. Charlie Pastorfield of The Believers called it "a hoss."

[Luke Duke]

I was gungho on doing a TW clone, but I was reading some threads about some basic differences between a wreck and a JTM45 and how a TW is significantly stiffer. That kind of scared me because I'm wanting some sag and power section interaction that, thus far, I've only heard from tube rectifier amps.

Hey Jay can you tell me some more about doing the power scaling? Sorry to be such a noob guys, and thanks again.

Luke

[Allynmey]

Trainwreck Liverpool is the ticket. Not as loud as an Express. Good cleans at low power. Great distortion sound . Note Clarity. Singing leads with extended harmonics!

Allynmey

[Luke Duke]

Trainwreck Liverpool is the ticket. Not as loud as an Express. Good cleans at low power. Great distortion sound . Note Clarity. Singing leads with extended harmonics!

Allynmey

It's too late for me I guess, what power tubes are in a Liverpool I think I remember my buddy telling me EL84s? I'm kinding wanting something with some big bottle tubes for that bigger sound. 6V6s would be great too. For more powerful tubes I've decided I really like the characteristics of EL34s with the softer bottom and more robust midrange with a rounded high. What's everyone's thoughs on running an Express with cathode bias.(if that's covered in the schematic room I apologize I haven't got in there but a few times)

Maybe I need to re-phrase....I'm not looking for Fendery or Voxy cleans I'm really just wanting something that I can control with the volume knob of my guitar. I feel like that is something missing in many many guitar amps.

I'm thinking of going on and using a slightly oddball impedance for the speaker cab like the bandmaster did because it encourages even earlier breakup, but I understand this won't be necessary with a TW.

Anybody got an clips or links of their TWs....especially any where they are messing with their volume knob, and or the gain knob?

I feel like I'm trying to ask what red looks like! LOL

Luke

[sliberty]

Here is a clip I made of my UniWreck a while ago. A lot of this material was played with the guitar volume cranked way back. Also, I have a master volume on the amp that was also dialed back a fair amount.

http://main.sliberty.com/misc/TrainWreckSounds.mp3

[Allynmey]

Great clip! I like the robin trower tribute!