Should I find a builder or is there an amp?

[thegrapeguy]

I primarily play Strat and have been having no success getting good tone out of my Mesa Boogie Mark II. I can get good cleans but no natural grind. So I started listening to many clips of amps (no way to test any here) and pretty much loved Tweed deluxe, Tweed bassman type tone. Until this:

http://www.premierguitar.com/Video/2010 ... recks.aspx

Listened to the full range of amps at this link and 7:33 you hear a TW Liverpool that pretty much encompasses the range of tones I would like. Granted not a Strat, which is my primary guitar to use with an amp like this, but I think the results would be similar. Overall the midrange is so prevalent and revealing. You must play accurately to have such an amp...Specifically from 8:24 to 8:33 it sounds as if you can hear the clean chime mixed in with the delicate overdrive (a multilayered sound). Can any current amps sound close to this? Should I have something built?

[Cliff Schecht]

Give us a price range, your musical style and perhaps some of the amps you tried that you DIDN'T like. Maybe others with more Liverpool experience can chime in on who makes a good clone.

[KellyBass]

Nice clip! Don't forget about the speaker part of the equation. Very critical for this type if voicing.

[dartanion]

Suzanne did not sound right, nor did the tan dumble. Both needed servicing and retubing in a bad way. The Liverpool was the best sounding amp in the Celestion room. Chuck though, can make any amp or guitar sound very nice.

[thegrapeguy]

I was thinking in the 2-4k range. I should also mention that my use is somewhat lower volume since I'm a guitar teacher/recording studio type guy. As far as amps I've never been able to play any of the boutique names like Bruno, Matchless, Morgan, Carr. In that first link of my first post I like the Komet 19 that follows the TW Liverpool but it only demos the clean sound which I thought was gorgeous. I currently play my Les Paul through a Mesa Boogie Mark II C+ but it gives a sort of "fake" distorted sound on my Strat. My style is '70's rock ala Doobies, Steely Dan, SRV, etc.

Out of the amps I've played I've loved the Fender Tweed Deluxe RI for my Strat the best. As far as what I don't like, new Marshall's (what most of my students play through). Another student has a Fender Deville (relatively new) and I don't care for it...

And so I'm looking for something to bring this Strat to life. When I came across the Trainwreck I loved how it responded to the hands of the musician. I liked how it seems to sound great on a Les Paul, Tele, and Strat. An organic natural sound. I pulled a few more videos of things I like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3VhCRFo ... re=related
(about as good as it gets for my taste from :36 on and esp 1:06 to 1:20 - it seems you can hear the chimey clean mixing with articulate overdrive and the feedback is ethereal)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUZsEWXn6qA&feature=fvw
(I like the passage from :43 to 1:35, esp 1:32 - 1:35)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2_12Ler9B8
(I esp like 2:05 to 3:20)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8LXichA ... 0&index=31
(I know it's a Bassman but the same thing occurs in this clip, it starts clean then at :10 it goes nuts with just a change to the guitar volume)

[martins3325]

Well Im not an amp builder, but a tone enthusiast and love amps ..judging by the tones you pointed out I think you might really like a EF86 Vintage Vox AC30 tones..TW Rocket is similar as well. Here is a clip of one of the best guitar tones Ive ever heard and really got me into Vox..particularly with ef86. Theres a guy here in VA who builds amps that run a vintage AC30/4 circuit (ef86)..as well as having the Top Boost circuit as well .. that is a killer amp..called a JMJ-30...also has power scaling to take a bit of the volume off. Killer amp..so much so my Komet KF50LTD became expendible. Of course tone is in the ear of the beholder..but this clip really does it for me..and though the one in the clip is a vintage ac30 with ef86 add on..my JMJ-30 can pretty much nail these tones..which i LOVE. Great cleans..lush and dynamic overdrive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsJncZho1sY

[Cliff Schecht]

I'll take that MKIIC+ if you are trying to get rid of it .

[thegrapeguy]

Yes Martins that is the tone! True overdrive that is organic and musical. Any clips of that custom amp you got?

My C+ for anybody's TW Liverpool plus cash, maybe 30 G's more...

[martins3325]

I dont have any clips of mine ..pretty much hits the tones in the clip though..or course a Tele and vintage celestion blues play a big part of the clip tone. MY amp is made by JMJ http://jmjamps.com/ ..he still makes amps but its a one guy deal so there is quite a long wait. A couple other options are:

XITS gorgeous and unique amps and have a amp that runs both the Top Boost and EF86 AC30/4 channels.
http://xits-sound.com/details.php?id=1

And then theres Magic amp that makes a Top Boost and EF86 AC30/4 channels in 15w package.
http://www.magicamps.com/BritMKII.cfm

The there is always just a good vintage amp..a really good vintage one can be magical ..here is a clip of one that was for sale I thought sounded really great --unless rediculously priced has to be sold-- not even an ef86 or top boost...just a kick ass candy panel one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVPfGWJf9ZA

[martins3325]

I dont have any clips of mine ..pretty much hits the tones in the clip though..or course a Tele and vintage celestion blues play a big part of the clip tone. MY amp is made by JMJ http://jmjamps.com/ ..he still makes amps but its a one guy deal so there is quite a long wait. A couple other options are:

XITS gorgeous and unique amps and have a amp that runs both the Top Boost and EF86 AC30/4 channels.
http://xits-sound.com/details.php?id=1

And then theres Magic amp that makes a Top Boost and EF86 AC30/4 channels in 15w package.
http://www.magicamps.com/BritMKII.cfm

The there is always just a good vintage amp..a really good vintage one can be magical ..here is a clip of one that was for sale I thought sounded really great --unless rediculously priced has to be sold-- not even an ef86 or top boost...just a kick ass candy panel one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVPfGWJf9ZA

One again the VINTAGE Celestion Blues are a big part of this glorious tone..though many claim it ..Ive never heard a new speaker that can really cop the lush, compressed but percussive, and yet not ice-picky tone of a good real vintage blue ..reissues are nice but not really even in the same ballpark in my opinion.

[martins3325]

Yes Martins that is the tone! True overdrive that is organic and musical. Any clips of that custom amp you got?

We I am a bit embarrassed to post this because the playing is so hack..was just a quick dirty test of amp/recorder ..but at least I FINALLY got a test clip of my JMJ30 amp..bear in mind I am completely novice at recording and mic placement..and it is dead dry signal with no pedals or eq or board effect at all. But I did manage to get a couple different guitar tones on here with varying levels of gain. Amp was with power scaling on about 1/2 so i dont blow my ears out.
Rythm : Cleanish Strat;
solo1 Strat ef86 channel 3/4 gain
solo2: Huber Jr P90 ef86 3/4 gain
solo3: Gretsch 6121 ef86 1/2 gain 2 dynasonics in middle position
Anyway poor playing aside should give an idea of the amp

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=10170010

[thegrapeguy]

Thanks Martins! Very tight sound! Exactly the type of tone I'd want in a Strat. I had a one day chance to get the JMJ but hesitated and I assume the amp was gone. Matt had one and I sent him some questions a couple days after he offered it to me and he didn't respond. But they were dumb questions like:

Does the amp offer a channel where it's like an old AC30 in that you simply turn it up and it overdrives? Or is it Master Volume type?

Can you play it without it in a head cab? ie easy to sit on a table and plug in?

Figured if it wasn't for me I'd not have spent money on North Coast gear. Though probably would love based on respect I've heard about the amp.

So ended up getting a '63 Vox AC30 head and '64 Vox 2x12 with original old Greys. Ok so the tone is awesome! I'll post a clip ASAP. Early reflections are that the amp is quite loud to get the tone I want - similar to what you got on your clips. Haven't quite dialed in the Strat yet but the Les Paul on the Lead pickup into the Brilliant channel is a match made in heaven - tight, punchy, bright and Townsend like. Negatives are amp is vintage and I can't rely on it for gigging. After hearing the JMJ I'd really like that for real world playing.