Tag was right!

[johan]

Hi
I need some info on current production 6L6 tubes. Are new Winged C just as great as the older ones? I buy My tubes from TAD and they've got quite à selection. Selected Winged Cs etc. Anything in particular to look for. Need a quad for a Ojai sort of thing.

[dogears]

I argue with Mike at KCA about this all the time. I say NO. My testing indicates that the transconductance and gain of these new Winged Cs is about 10-15% lower than it used to be. Unless you can get new ones with transconductance in the 2400-2500 mhos range and plate current in the 22-30 range, I'd pass. Measured on a Maxi Matcher at 120V.

No matter what brand, try and get higher headroom variants for these amps. I don't care for the TAD short bottles or tall ones btw. I'd grab strong Tung Sol 6L6GC STR. Sound good to me..... Unless you find NOS STR-387s or 415s.

Hi
I need some info on current production 6L6 tubes. Are new Winged C just as great as the older ones? I buy My tubes from TAD and they've got quite à selection. Selected Winged Cs etc. Anything in particular to look for. Need a quad for a Ojai sort of thing.

[Structo]

In my new 100w ODS amp I have a quad of Tung Sol 6L6 STR's

I mainly chose these as a cheaper alternative to the Winged C's I have used in the past.
But they have turned out to be nice output tubes.

As I receieved them they were pretty well balanced with one being 1-2ma off from the others.

My amp has dual bias pots, one for each side.

The tubes have settled down but have drifted just a bit, not more than 3ma.

Sometimes you can rearrange them in the sockets to where they are better matched.

I like the tone of these tubes, lots of bottom with sweet mids and not too brittle high end.

I bought mine at the Tube Depot.
They are having a 10% off sale on Tung Sol.

http://tubedepot.com/ts-6l6str.html

[Billion81]

Yeah, but is this not some ridiculous jazz improv! Watch whole solo....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aejzmpcz ... r_embedded

He and the drummer are fully on lockstep. Clearly not just hopping on stage and opening a Real Book.

[johan]

How can one tell an old Winged C from the current production?
When were the older made?
Thanks a lot!
http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/index.php?cPath=21_70_82

[Mr Dumble]

AHHH!!!! My winged Cs just came in. I am looking forward to dropping them in the TKT and checking them out. I am going to do some A/B clips and see what kind of diffrence they make. Should be interesting.

[johan]

Hi Tag
Current production or older WC's?
See Scott's post.

[dogears]

Tag got EL34 tubes. I was referring to the 6L6. My Winged C EL34 has nominal normal transconductance measurements. Nothing low there....

AHHH!!!! My winged Cs just came in. I am looking forward to dropping them in the TKT and checking them out. I am going to do some A/B clips and see what kind of diffrence they make. Should be interesting.

[johan]

Ahh sorry my bad.
I heard he's got a 6L6 183 coming so...

Winged C EL34 is what I have for my 183. Not ready yet + it will be a 50W.
Tubes are http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/product_in ... cts_id=346

[boldaslove6789]

Any preferences for 183 12AX7's? What is everybody diggin?

[Mr Dumble]

Any preferences for 183 12AX7's? What is everybody diggin?

First off, surprisingly, very little difference between power tubes. Biasing each set hotter and colder makes more of a difference than which power tubes I use. The preamp tubes make huge differences. Of all my Pre amp tubes, I dig the standard GEs and RCAs the most. The RCAs give monster bass. Maybe a bit to much. Telefunkens drop bass and add highs. Very refined, but lose some personality. I have some Smooth and ribbed, as well as some "matched" Ss.

[Bob-I]

First off, surprisingly, very little difference between power tubes. Biasing each set hotter and colder makes more of a difference than which power tubes I use.

Surprisingly I agree. I often test my amps with cheepy Chinese tubes then swap with Tung-Sol or Winged C, then I wonder why. My main gigging amp has the Chinese tubes because it sounds fine, especially at the low volumes I play (even have a sound man tell you to turn UP ). In-ears are great, amazing how much you can hear.

[mlp-mx6]

First off, surprisingly, very little difference between power tubes. Biasing each set hotter and colder makes more of a difference than which power tubes I use.

Surprisingly I agree. I often test my amps with cheepy Chinese tubes then swap with Tung-Sol or Winged C, then I wonder why. My main gigging amp has the Chinese tubes because it sounds fine, especially at the low volumes I play (even have a sound man tell you to turn UP ). In-ears are great, amazing how much you can hear.

Given the title and opening post of this thread, this is a very interesting observation - especially from Tag. I don't get it.

[Mr Dumble]

After going back and forth many times and getting the bias to where I like it, (28-29) the answer for me is the Svetlanas hands down. First quick impressions were wrong. The winged Cs just sound dead and muddy in comparison. Very surprising, and a waste of money. Live, learn, and ALWAYS trust your own ears in the end.

[Mr Dumble]

So, I swapped out the Siemens EL34s in my 183 amp with both my Winged C EL34 and Tung Sol New Sensor EL34.

The Siemens were dull and congested. There was a massive difference between tubes. I recall Tag not liking the Siemens when installed in 183. He also did not care for my 183 when we got together.

I can safely say that now with the Winged C installed (most of my clips of the Phat Momma had them in there) the amp is much less congested on the bottom. When we compared at Tag's, the Phat Momma had a lack of low end clarity. All returned now with the Winged C EL34s.

Lastly, I removed the bright cap on the master. Now, there is much more of the high end compression that the real 183 and Tag's TKT possess. The bright cap adds a lot of clarity to the top, but removes some of the straining/phasing caused by the loop cables. Even Tags amp had dramatically less of that when we removed his cables to the Trex. Much brighter and less of that compression.

Pinner was over while I tweaked. He can corroborate the differences.

In the end, we all like what we like. I just get really ticked when people BS about certain builders being superior or possessing hidden magic. It is all in the tweaking provided the build is solid.

I look forward to my next Tag gathering. Gonna bring the Ojai! Still my fave......

Scott,
I would love to see what happened if you put some Svetlanas in there. Thats what was in my amp when you were here. Unless these winged Cs are just bad (i doubt it), the Svetlanas are just better in ever area. If you have a chance, would love to see what you think of them in the GW. They may REALLY open that amp up. Thats what seems to be happening in my TKT at least.