Layout 5th Generation 183

[dreric]

Max, TAG etc........................

The constant derailing of threads away from pertinent information used to build an amp, to the endless:

"You can't make one like this one"

is tiring. At times it makes it difficult find information. It creates tension and irritation within the group.

It would be different if you were builders or at least aspired to build an amp.

All of this has been said over and over.

Yet the derailing persists and often degrades into personal attacks.

There's a point that you seem to be missing.

The point is that building amps is FUN. A a hobby for most, a fun business for some.

These are guitar amps. That's all.

I see guys wanting to make an amp, trying different designs, putting their own spin on things or trying copy as close as they can all so they can play it and say "hey, I built that" which IS THE POINT! Not to build an amp which passes some ridiculous blind comparison and passes as a "sound replica".

It's about creation not duplication.

Eric

[Structo]

Well said Eric.

[Max]

Well said Eric.

I am sorry for disturbing your "creation" process by posting my personal opinions concerning what would be the most promising way to build an amp that duplicates the tone of #183 as close as possible.

Maybe I did misunderstand the meaning of "Dumble Discussion" - perhaps because I am not a native english speaker.

So sorry again for my derailing posts and back now to "creation".

Cheers,

Max

[Mr Dumble]

Max, TAG etc........................

The constant derailing of threads away from pertinent information used to build an amp, to the endless:

"You can't make one like this one"

is tiring. At times it makes it difficult find information. It creates tension and irritation within the group.

It would be different if you were builders or at least aspired to build an amp.

All of this has been said over and over.

Yet the derailing persists and often degrades into personal attacks.

There's a point that you seem to be missing.

The point is that building amps is FUN. A a hobby for most, a fun business for some.

These are guitar amps. That's all.

I see guys wanting to make an amp, trying different designs, putting their own spin on things or trying copy as close as they can all so they can play it and say "hey, I built that" which IS THE POINT! Not to build an amp which passes some ridiculous blind comparison and passes as a "sound replica".

It's about creation not duplication.

Eric

Hey Eric,
Its a mixed bag. Some are here to build amps just fun, sure. However, this is a DUMBLE DISCUSSION section, and many are here who claim to have the "secret sauce" and other such jingoistic nonsense. This thread is also about building a clone of #183, of which I happened to have owned for a while. I am saying have a blast, but dont forget that the tone is the bottom line. I have stated it may be better to start another thread about the actual TONE of the amp, so I will. I actually hate arguing about what sounds like what, which is why I always ask for clips. Then all BS stops, and everyone can hear and decide what sounds good to THEM, which is the most important thing. If anyone is going to be claiming to have nailed Dumbles tones, and are selling amps based on that, I think its very important to hear the amp compared to the supposed cloned Dumble in an A/B situation. Otherwise its all smoke. I will start another thread for comparisons to 183 only. Anyone trying to get that tone can post a clip there and see how it stacks up. If they want to try and sell amps that are supposed to be a clone of 183, they are welcome to use my clips as a comparison.

[tubedogsmith]

Who, specifically besides you has claimed to have nailed Dumble tone? Maybe dogears, who's actually pretty close based on his clips, but other than that, who on this board?

[Max]

Max, TAG etc........................

The constant derailing of threads away from pertinent information used to build an amp is tiring. At times it makes it difficult find information.

Hi dreric,

obviously you confuse the forum sections. This here is the discussion section and here you find the information section: https://tubeamparchive.com/viewforum.php?f=5

It creates tension and irritation within the group.

IMO tension and irritation are state of minds that help a lot in every creative process. So I agree that we obviously disagree in this point - no big surprise in a discussion. If everyone would have the same opinion IMO a discussion section would be obsolete anyway.

It would be different if you were builders or at least aspired to build an amp.

If this is your opinion I would recommend to visit forums where only amp building people are invited to post their opinions.

But this here is a forum "for discussing anything related to Dumble Amplifiers" https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.php?p=3058#3058

And this here is the discussion section of this forum. So perhaps you shouldn't post or read posts in a discussion section of a forum like this one, if you have personal problems reading opinions that differ from your own opinions, because IMO to discuss controversal positions, too, is what a discussion is all about.

I see guys... trying copy as close as they can

It's about creation not duplication.

IMO guys who are "trying copy as close as they can" are trying to create a duplication. And IMO the science of psychoacoustics offers an important part of the knowledge someone needs, who wants to create a duplication of the sound of #183, and IMO this is the topic of this thread. But - of course - feel free to think different, because IMO you are invited as much to post your opinions as I am invited to post mine. We both are guest here and as far as I know you are not the host and no appointed spokesman of the host.

So if you have a problem with some of the guests, I would recommend to approach our host and not to start a "the good, the bad and the ugly" discussion because IMO this kind of "meta" stuff is really "derailing" from the #183 topic.

Cheers,

Max

[mlp-mx6]

While I understand the frustration, I appreciate Max for helping us actually keep it real.

How many versions of "THIS IS THE ANSWER" for the D-magic have we been through? It reminds me of the answer to "How old is the universe?" The answer is constantly changing.

It seems there are as many unique examples of D-craft as there are actual ODS amps. Max is constantly pointing us back to original examples and original specs.

[Max]

Max is constantly pointing us back to original examples and original specs.

Yes, indeed. But I do so not to frustrate people on the way to their own interpretations of these circuits but because it is my opinion that the better the staus quo of information about the original specs is, the better the quality of the starting point for an own creativ interpretation is.

Cheers,

Max

[M Fowler]

Versions:

There will be as many as we keep building and the real Dumbles out there still not heard.

Since I am not building for a top player only local kats and myself the tone I strive for is probably a lot different then what the next guy is striding for.

Eric and Tom I agree this for me is about building and sharing building ideas as we certainly know different playing styles and taste for tone exist.

Max provides excellent information and history which I enjoy as well so I have been soaking it all in.

Thanks guys keep the discussion going.

Mark

[dreric]

Max and TAG,

Every time I interact with you guys end up wanting to poke a stick in my eye as that would be more useful to me, but alas I got sucked in one more time. My bad...............

But now that I'm in, I must say that I am really astounded at the level of condescension, superiority, megalomania and self appointed expertise you both demonstrate in some of your posting.................again my bad for thinking that things would be different.

However with the bitter comes the sweet as I have learned a lot for some of Max's post's. TAG's sideways introduction (I'll give it to Shad, who'll give it to you, while I say there's more than what i gave to Shad that I'll never give to you, WTF?) of the 183 data is helpful. Thank you both.

Seeing that my earlier post today cause both of you to reference the "rules" of the page I'd ask to to look up the top of the screen right under the header saying THE AMP GARAGE ...............

mine says: "a tube amp builder's community"

and that was and still is my point.

I'm out.................(I apologize to the group for my contribution to this pointless drama)

Eric

[Mr Dumble]

Who, specifically besides you has claimed to have nailed Dumble tone? Maybe dogears, who's actually pretty close based on his clips, but other than that, who on this board?

Are you kidding me? (I am not talking about just this board.)

[Mr Dumble]

Max, TAG etc........................

The constant derailing of threads away from pertinent information used to build an amp is tiring. At times it makes it difficult find information.

Hi dreric,

obviously you confuse the forum sections. This here is the discussion section and here you find the information section: https://tubeamparchive.com/viewforum.php?f=5

It creates tension and irritation within the group.

IMO tension and irritation are state of minds that help a lot in every creative process. So I agree that we obviously disagree in this point - no big surprise in a discussion. If everyone would have the same opinion IMO a discussion section would be obsolete anyway.

It would be different if you were builders or at least aspired to build an amp.

If this is your opinion I would recommend to visit forums where only amp building people are invited to post their opinions.

But this here is a forum "for discussing anything related to Dumble Amplifiers" https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.php?p=3058#3058

And this here is the discussion section of this forum. So perhaps you shouldn't post or read posts in a discussion section of a forum like this one, if you have personal problems reading opinions that differ from your own opinions, because IMO to discuss controversal positions, too, is what a discussion is all about.

I see guys... trying copy as close as they can

It's about creation not duplication.

IMO guys who are "trying copy as close as they can" are trying to create a duplication. And IMO the science of psychoacoustics offers an important part of the knowledge someone needs, who wants to create a duplication of the sound of #183, and IMO this is the topic of this thread. But - of course - feel free to think different, because IMO you are invited as much to post your opinions as I am invited to post mine. We both are guest here and as far as I know you are not the host and no appointed spokesman of the host.

So if you have a problem with some of the guests, I would recommend to approach our host and not to start a "the good, the bad and the ugly" discussion because IMO this kind of "meta" stuff is really "derailing" from the #183 topic.

Cheers,

Max

Very cool post Max.

[ChrisM]

Who, specifically besides you has claimed to have nailed Dumble tone? Maybe dogears, who's actually pretty close based on his clips, but other than that, who on this board?

Are you kidding me? (I am not talking about just this board.)

Weren't you banned?

Who likes TAG here?

[Mr Dumble]

Max and TAG,

Every time I interact with you guys end up wanting to poke a stick in my eye as that would be more useful to me, but alas I got sucked in one more time. My bad...............

But now that I'm in, I must say that I am really astounded at the level of condescension, superiority, megalomania and self appointed expertise you both demonstrate in some of your posting.................again my bad for thinking that things would be different.

However with the bitter comes the sweet as I have learned a lot for some of Max's post's. TAG's sideways introduction (I'll give it to Shad, who'll give it to you, while I say there's more than what i gave to Shad that I'll never give to you, WTF?) of the 183 data is helpful. Thank you both.

Seeing that my earlier post today cause both of you to reference the "rules" of the page I'd ask to to look up the top of the screen right under the header saying THE AMP GARAGE ...............

mine says: "a tube amp builder's community"

and that was and still is my point.

I'm out.................(I apologize to the group for my contribution to this pointless drama)

Eric

Hey Doctor.
Nobody wants the Dumble tone to be "nailed" more than myself. However, builder forum or not, I would not expect anyone to go out, buy a Dumble, and then share every detail of it with the world. No less demand pics be posted. Have I built an amp? No, and I do not want to right now. Many other members have not either. I have repaired many of my own, and a few friends with simple problems. (jacks, Pots, tubes, bias, resistors,etc) and I intend to keep it that way for right now. Thanks to you guys I do feel an itch coming on, and of course if I do choose to build a Dumble style amp, the tone will finally be 100% nailed!

[Bob Simpson]

Who, specifically besides you has claimed to have nailed Dumble tone? Maybe dogears, who's actually pretty close based on his clips, but other than that, who on this board?

Are you kidding me? (I am not talking about just this board.)

Weren't you banned?

Who likes TAG here?

The select few allowed to look at the amp he owned long enough to clone are relatively sure his feces are not malodorous...

Thus he weaseled his way back into being a PITA when he was banned everywhere else, as well.

Much like having a pork chop tied to your neck so the dog will play with you...

I recommend ignoring him... maybe he'll go away...