3rd Generation ODS 50W

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Max
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Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 6:08 pm

Re: 3rd Generation ODS 50W

Post by Max »

talbany wrote: Used this schematic posted here while back.. Obviously WRONG!!
Hi Tony,

in what details do you think that this schematic is wrong?
talbany wrote: If you would be so kind as to re-post those clips here of this 3rd generation for a sonic reference that would be wonderful..
Here are the 3rd generation "pre-classic" clips:

https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... 117#135117
https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... 120#135120
https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... 121#135121

Have a nice evening,

Max
talbany
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Location: Dumbleland

Re: 3rd Generation ODS 50W

Post by talbany »

In what details do you think that this schematic is wrong?
Glancing over the schematic earlier it looked like the ..005 was attached to the bass pot.. It's the cap off the J/R switch + Forgot transition classics used both 100k and or 150K slopes..:shock: Pass me my glasses I have layout-itis

Cool Clips thanks!!

Tony
Max
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Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 6:08 pm

Re: 3rd Generation ODS 50W

Post by Max »

talbany wrote:
In what details do you think that this schematic is wrong?
Glancing over the schematic earlier it looked like the ..005 was attached to the bass pot.. It's the cap off the J/R switch + Forgot transition classics used both 100k and or 150K slopes
Hi Tony,

I understand. What is unusual in #094, is this: If the schematic should be correct (I'm not able to judge this based on this pic), then #094 is a "high plate classic" with a 150K slope resistor and a "h. f. taper".

And all this is indeed rather unusual for a transition generation "classic" ODS. AFAIR all other transition generation "classic" ODS amps I know in person or have seen on pics or have heard of are "low plate", have a 100K slope resistor and no h. f. taper.

Just look at the gut pics of #093 (Carlos Rios, now Ben Harper) as an example, which you've posted here https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... 297#127297

Ben Harper's #093 is a typical example for a transition generation "classic" ODS (with an accent switch and no full size presence control on the front like all the later 4th generation "classic" ODS amps).

Because many of the specs of #094 are indeed unusual for such a transition generation "classic" ODS it may well be that Alexander updated it to "high plate" specs and the 150K slope and the small "h. f. taper" board have been a part of this update, too.

But this is only a guess of course. Perhaps #093 is just one of the first "classic" amps that has been originally built with the high plate configuration, the 150K slope and the h. f. taper but still in a transition generation chassis.

In the 4th generation "classic" ODS amps you find indeed both - high plate and low plate configurations and 100K as wall as 150K slope resitors. But #094 is indeed the only transition generation "classic" ODS with a "high plate" configuration, a 150K slope resistor and a "h.f. taper" that I have ever seen in person or on pictures or heard of.

Pictures, which show the differences in appearance between the transition generation "classic" ODS amps and the 4th generation "classic" ODS amps you find here: https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... 986#135986

All the best,

Max
talbany
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Re: 3rd Generation ODS 50W

Post by talbany »

Max
Thanks for the explanation this will help with future layouts!!

Yeah seeing the amp de-gooped and the non stock KOA resistors in a high plate configuration for such a low serial w/150k slope was a bit Confusing at first..

Take Care!!

Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
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erwin_ve
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Re: 3rd Generation ODS 50W

Post by erwin_ve »

Tony, great job, thnx for taking time making these lay-outs!
marcos
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Re: 3rd Generation ODS 50W

Post by marcos »

Hi Tony,
thank you one more time for the layout.
I´d like to add that the 3rd generation amp that I have seen had a
250 K linear treble pot, also the mid pot coulds be a 10% taper.
Not a big deal IMHO, just for the record
Marcos
Max
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Re: 3rd Generation ODS 50W

Post by Max »

Here is a crunch clip that has been recorded with a 3rd generation "pre-classic" ODS: https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... 322#137322

Cheers,

Max
Teleguy61
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Re: 3rd Generation ODS 50W

Post by Teleguy61 »

All-
GREAT info!
Embarking on a 100W HRM build, based around
Twin trannies and a Ceriatone kit.
This is tremendous help-
George
Max
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Re: 3rd Generation ODS 50W

Post by Max »

marcos wrote:Hi Tony,
thank you one more time for the layout.
I´d like to add that the 3rd generation amp that I have seen had a
250 K linear treble pot, also the mid pot coulds be a 10% taper.
Not a big deal IMHO, just for the record
Marcos
Hi Marcos,

The majority of the 3rd generation "pre-classic" ODS amps I know in person or from gut pictures that have still been without a mod or repair at the time I've seen them or the pictures had been taken, had these pots:

Volume: Fender part # 021832; 1M AUD
Treble: Fender part # 021857; 250K AUD 2-35
Middle: Fender part # 021857; 250K AUD 2-35
Bass: Fender part # 021832; 1M AUD
Overdrive: Fender part # 021873; 100K - D
Level: Fender part # 021832; 1M AUD

And in the majority of the 3rd generation "pre-classic" ODS amps I know in person and from gut pictures that have still been without a mod or repair at the time I’ve seen them or the pictures had been taken, was the black RG59 coax and a Columbia Flexfoam coax cable for the connection between the FET input and the FET board, just as in your own 2nd generation amp.

But of course there will be exceptions - like this single 3rd generation amp with a 250KL treble pot that you know; just as you will find some few 50ies Les Paul Customs with only two PAFs or with some kind of Switchmaster wiring etc.

In some kind of metaphor you could perhaps compare this with a Gaussian bell curve: Most amps from the same generation have very similar specs, some will have specs that are a bit different from the more usual ones and very few will have specs that are very different or even more similar to the usual specs of the previous or the next generation.

IMO this is indeed very similar to the usual generalisations which are commonly used in regard to different generations of Les Pauls and Stratocasters as an example. And IMO it makes sense to use generalisations in communication like "Goldtop with PAFs" even though you will find some differences between Les Pauls from this "generation" (black parts, dark backs, etc.). IMO generalisations like "3rd generation 'pre-classic' ODS" are meaningful semantic means of communication - no more, no less.

But if someone should prefer to call what I call the "3rd generation 'pre-classic' ODS amps":

"The ODS amps with a silver chassis and toggle EQ and manual/pedal switches that have been originally built with an accent switch on their front panels and without a presence and a ratio control on their front or back panels"

this would IMO be just an other possibility to make clear what kind of ODS someone is precisely talking about .

But personally I prefer to save some time and breath and to just say and write "3rd generation 'pre-classic' ODS". This is just more to my personal taste than some other obvious possibilities to "name" this kind of ODS amps whose layout and front panel look (3rd generation "export" combo pic) have been posted in the OP of this thread.

All the best,

Max
marcos
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Re: 3rd Generation ODS 50W

Post by marcos »

Hi Max,
thanks again for all your input.I defintely believe that your categories(2nd,3rd generation etc.) make sense.Discussing the variations does not contradict this in any way.I guess this is what this forum is for.
Keep the good stuff coming
Marcos
Max
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Re: 3rd Generation ODS 50W

Post by Max »

marcos wrote:Hi Max,
thanks again for all your input.I defintely believe that your categories(2nd,3rd generation etc.) make sense.Discussing the variations does not contradict this in any way.I guess this is what this forum is for.
Keep the good stuff coming
Marcos
Hi Marcos,

Thanks back to you, too. And IMO your are 100% right that these variations do not contradict the use of these generalisations. And I think we should discuss all these variations known to all here, because IMO these variations may perhaps be great starting points for some personal tweaks.

And you have a lot of personal experience in trying differrent tweaks in your own 2nd generation amp and can perhaps try to describe their infuences on the tone of your amp, as you already did in some previous threads.

Marcos, thanks for your contribution and input here!

Max
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jelle
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Re: 3rd Generation ODS 50W

Post by jelle »

marcos wrote:Hi Max,
thanks again for all your input.I defintely believe that your categories(2nd,3rd generation etc.) make sense.Discussing the variations does not contradict this in any way.I guess this is what this forum is for.
Keep the good stuff coming
Marcos
+1! Thanks!

Jelle
Max
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Re: 3rd Generation ODS 50W

Post by Max »

Clean sound of a 3rd generation "pre-classic" Overdrive Special 50W combo with 12" Altec 417-8H Series II with a paper dust cap mod

Karl Ratzer "I Fall In Love Too Easily"

Karl Ratzer – guitar
Karl Hodina - accordion

Don't miss Karl Hodina playing his accordion!

https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... 428#138428

Cheers,

Max
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