Tweed Deluxe

[Big Jim]

I've been tossing around the idea of building a combo. The more I read about the 5E3 circuit, the more I hear of lets just say, shortcomings....hard on tubes, flabby low end, lack of headroom, excessive voltages due to higher modern wall voltages etc. I really like that sound though. Has anyone around here built one of these? It seems like it would be a fun, cheap amp to build. Any thoughts?
Jim

[selloutrr]

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It's a must have amp, flawed or not it's got an "IT" sound.

EDIT:- If you build it the OT transformer, tubes, and tone caps really have an effect on tone. If you can't use vintage caps/ NOS. I personally like the sozo, I've good results with the Russian metal housing paper oil as well. NOS tubes will make a world of difference in getting the smooth overdrive. I guess I should add a broken in speaker is also a plus!

If city power AC voltage is an issue have you considered running a variac?

[passfan]

I built a Richter style one Jim with 6l6's and it sounded great. The speaker makes the amp on this one so don't scrimp there. Absolutely came to life hooked up to a 1x12 cabinet loaded with a 12" Celestion greenback. Initially put too big a bypass cap on the output and had it sounding like a marshall. If I had it to do again I would use cliff jacks on the inputs. Had problems with the shorting contacts on the switchcraft jacks and the buzz and hum drove me crazy.

[Big Jim]

Thanks Sellout,
Thats kind of how I feel about it. I heard some tweed deluxes and bigger tweeds up in Chicago (Mike Wheeler and Chico Banks) while I was slumming around the clubs. Been wanting one ever since.

[Big Jim]

I built a Richter style one Jim with 6l6's and it sounded great. The speaker makes the amp on this one so don't scrimp there. Absolutely came to life hooked up to a 1x12 cabinet loaded with a 12" Celestion greenback. Initially put too big a bypass cap on the output and had it sounding like a marshall. If I had it to do again I would use cliff jacks on the inputs. Had problems with the shorting contacts on the switchcraft jacks and the buzz and hum drove me crazy.

I've heard good things about the greenback and the tone tubby hempcone with this circuit, and I believe Weber has a speaker that shines with this amp as well.12-125 I think. I just want something a little smaller to get my mojo going. Thanks for the info and stuff guys.
Jim

[FYL]

The 5E3 is one of the greatest amps ever, despite - or because - of it's peculiarities. It's pretty easy to correct the nasties an obtain a glorious tweed tone w/o bloated bass and ugly disto at stage levels.

[labb]

Any of you built the 5B3? If not, then try it. You will like it. Something about those octal Pre amp tubes...

[Big Jim]

Alright,
I'm back on track. I've been wanting to try a Fender circuit anyway. Thanks for the info....time to start gathering.
Jim

[rp]

I've been tossing around the idea of building a combo. The more I read about the 5E3 circuit, the more I hear of lets just say, shortcomings....hard on tubes, flabby low end, lack of headroom, excessive voltages due to higher modern wall voltages etc. I really like that sound though. Has anyone around here built one of these? It seems like it would be a fun, cheap amp to build. Any thoughts?
Jim

First off: Hard on tubes? Probably better than most amps - It's supposed to be rock and roll. Excessive voltage = Wrong PT, unless you're talking about buying a vintage one.

I'm tired of complaints about the 5E3.

It is a perfect amp, not near perfect, Perfect. It only has shortcomings if your expectations are incorrect.

It needs no mods, in its stock form its a great Jazz amp, great Country amp, great Rock & Roll amp - I've even heard it's ok for Blues It is an old design it will do all those things but only its way, if your way agrees you are set otherwise it is not the amp for you. And no amount of tweaking will ever make you happy. It is not a one trick pony but it is a simple amp, if you are young this might confuse you.

It will never give you that tight grinding modern distortion, as will no amp designed before the JMP50. It will give big loose full distortion, as requested.

It's probably the most cloned amp on the planet, it's most peoples' first amp. What makes you think all those people complaining on the internet have built good ones, and have ever heard a real one, and for that matter a good real one? In 2010 there is a lot more bad old than good old making the rounds.

It gets shit on cause it's in the middle power range - Too many people build it expecting a bedroom amp, and too many people get bummed cause it's not acting like a 40 watter.

Mine is at 350V plate, totally stock except 22@C1, old CDE Black Cats. It isn't in the least bit dark, I even think it's bright, and only flubs if I jump the channels and push it too hard - and who's fault is that?

I think the simplicity of the circuit makes it more sensitive to some things: voltages, tubes, speaker. My experience (learned recently) is to keep the voltages low (350-370), vintage tubes are essential, speakers make or break it, but fortunately it likes several. Mine kills with either a G12M25 in a wide 1x12 pine closed back or a 1x12 G12H30 open back. The greenback is the darkest / dirtiest speaker I'd go with. Wish I had a Blue and really wish I still had old Jensens to try. It's great with PAF style humbuxkers - ie bright, low output HBs, but it really, really sings with single coils - imagine that! It takes pedals great.

For tonality you must learn to use it, the 3 knobs interact, but hey, it's only 3 knobs to learn! It has fine headroom if you use something like a G12H30. It's probably 15 watts at 350V so I never understood the headroom complaints. My Matchless Lightning clone has more headroom, it also has an OT 3 times the size and of much better quality. Even Leo thought it didn't have enough headroom, that's why he offered half a dozen models above it. Again, if headroom's an issue you got the wrong amp, or you need to build it a bigger friend - we are amp builders after all.

My build's a head but I used to own a '59 with the original P12Q. As a combo it's one of the lightest, most portable amps ever made.

What more you all want! (Actually, I do wish the volume didn't come up so fast, but that only matters at low volumes.)

BTW my '59 was a great amp, but I think my clone is better.

[dave g]

Throw a 470k resistor on the grid of the PI, reduce preamp bypass caps to 5uF, and bring down the .1uF couplers to .047 or .022 and it will be an amazing amp even with new production tubes.

[Big Jim]

I guess it goes to show you, if you research something enough on the net, you will eventually find negativity. One mans ultimate mojo machine is another mans hopeless distortion ridden science experiment. Your comments reassured my desire to build this circuit. Now to start locating the good stuff for this thing.
Thanks, Jim

[Zippy]

The 5E3 kit from Mission Amps is widely regarded as one of the best.

[echuta13]

Throw a 470k resistor on the grid of the PI, reduce preamp bypass caps to 5uF, and bring down the .1uF couplers to .047 or .022 and it will be an amazing amp even with new production tubes.

I was very happy with my Deluxe with similar mods. Used 10uf bypass caps though (full, but tighter), and used a .022 coupling cap on one channel. Added the 470k resistor to the PI's grid, and also did the tone control low pass mod mentioned on RecPro (used a .001 though).

[rp]

I guess it goes to show you, if you research something enough on the net, you will eventually find negativity. One mans ultimate mojo machine is another mans hopeless distortion ridden science experiment. Your comments reassured my desire to build this circuit. Now to start locating the good stuff for this thing.
Thanks, Jim

Build it with the Mission Trannies if you go scratch, certainly the PT. He gets the voltages right, and his web posts regarding this are what steered me in this direction. I gutted and rebuilt mine to un-hifi it (I was once lost but now I'm found) then recapped with NOS, then mucked around some more, always a dog. I put a lower V PT and BINGO Killer Deluxe, finally. Also, NOS 5Y3, and keep the cathode r at 250, no more than 300. I used a custom heyboer but with the Mission PT that should happen, and will allow for a 5V4 and SS too.

Best advice: built it stock. test it with a proven good neutral broken-in speaker for it like a G12H30 Anni with and a single coil guitar - then tweak if not happy.

[Big Jim]

Best advice: built it stock. test it with a proven good neutral broken-in speaker for it like a G12H30 Anni with and a single coil guitar - then tweak if not happy.[/quote +1 for that. I built my Express dead stock, did what I needed with tube choices, and never looked back.