thoughts on tubes

[selloutrr]

I'm wondering what you think of the Groove Tube EL34M "5". I was thinking of trying them in the Trainwreck or Komet.

[tubeswell]

Probably a Russkie tube in disguise

[labb]

Russkie or China

[FYL]

I'm wondering what you think of the Groove Tube EL34M "5". I was thinking of trying them in the Trainwreck or Komet.

The EL34M is GT's version of a Mullard XF2 EL34. Built by Shuguang to GT specifications using some GT-supplied tooling - the first batches were more or less made in the USA, then all production was shifted to China.

Not recently used or tested, but samples supplied after their launch - late 2006 or so - were really great tubes. Very close to the real thing when it comes to appearance and quite close performance-wise.

An Express or a Komet love medium/hard tubes (4 to 6 in GT parlance), so a 5 rating should be purrfect.

[selloutrr]

yes the groove tube mullards are made in the sovtek plant. the original batch run that these came out of where true to the mullard tube. but they had such a high failure rate. soon after releasing the tubes they had to change the design to correct the loss of product.

[aclempoppi]

If I can side-track the EL34 subject for a question; Does anyone have any opinions or country of origin, on the mid 2000 GT 6L6GE tubes ? Got a pair I use in '68 Bassman 2X10 conversion combo. They're well over 1200 hrs, and still match within 2ma at idle current draw. It's just that the history of these tubes is pretty sketchy. Any info would be great ! Art

[selloutrr]

i have no clue if this helps answer your question but maybe?
http://www.legendarytones.com/groovetubes.html

[aclempoppi]

Thanks ! Art

[Structo]

The GT 6L6GE tube was found to be made in China.
Only a few elements of the tube are known to be made here.
I won't go as far as to call it fraud but GT did not ever make this tube in the USA.
Our EPA regulations are much too harsh to allow the use of materials needed in the manufacture of vacuum tubes on a large scale.

[FYL]

Does anyone have any opinions or country of origin, on the mid 2000 GT 6L6GE tubes ?

Initial batches - from mid '02 to sometimes in '03 - were hecho en California, then production was transferred to Shuguang, China.

[selloutrr]

For the record Groove tubes has never made any tubes, like Ruby, Mesa and a lot of other brands they buy in bulk, test and match tubes, resilk screen a logo and "testing number" and charge the customer out the nose for a tube, mostly due the loss of inventory from buying bulk tubes and absorbing the cost, well passing it on to the customers.

Most of the time buying tubes in bulk is assumed the batch is untested and will have 15-40% failure rate. but that is why the tubes are cheap!
Usually under $1.50 each

The funny part is the factory that manufactures tubes also runs thier own quality control tests before they ship them out to weed out the duds. Any tube depot will match for around $2. So you can buy the same tubes GT sold for about 1/2 the cost if not less.

It's possible GT has requested special production tubes over the years but as far as hands on manufacturing... Never.

[FYL]

For the record Groove tubes has never made any tubes

GT had a small factory in their San Fernando premises and built limited quantities of 6CA7s, EL34s as well as 6L6GCs using GE and Richardson-sourced surplus equipment.

[selloutrr]

when was this?

I'm open to being wrong but this was the information I was given.

A few years back just before GT was purchased by Fender. I was looking into becoming a dealer, I had several lengthy conversations about the products and history of the company. I was told other then a select batch of scavenged NOS tubes in the early days and still by special artist endorsement request. It's never been GT's practice to manufacture tubes or use anything that is not in current production. They purchased rights to the Machines to manufacture the Mullard RI exclusively, but it turned out to be more less a failure as quality control was finding a high failure rate and presold orders where not being filled, causing months of delays.

From what I was told the enviromental restrictions in the United States were to strick to manufacture tubes in this country.

The Rep went on to trying to justify the increase in cost, since dealer cost was still more then MSRP if you where to buy the tube from the manufacture. Basically they, burn them in, test them and buy using the "numbering" and special pant it's a plug in and play. Honestly lots of hype and sparkle, but the fact is the tube is still a reprint that is available from the actual manufacture for less.

I ended up passing on becoming a dealer because I couldn't recommend the same tube for more $ and feel good, just to make a profit, and not a big one at that, maybe 9%. The GT MSRP was so high dealers where whoring out the tubes are cost plus 5% to stay dealers. So a happy customer was a better route, then sitting on $$$$ of over priced russian and chinese tubes.

[FYL]

when was this?

GT bought the equipment in 1998 and 1999 from GE and Richardson (actually, I guess that GE sold it to Richardson, who resold it to GT), the San Fernando factory operated from late 1999/early 2000 to mid 2002 or so.

Here are a few pix of their operations, building some 6L6GE demos/protos:

[img:640:480]http://www.groovetubes.com/assets/1713_EPSN0002.jpg[/img]

[img:640:480]http://www.groovetubes.com/assets/1713_EPSN0015.jpg[/img]

[img:640:480]http://www.groovetubes.com/assets/1713_EPSN0007.jpg[/img]

They purchased rights to the Machines to manufacture the Mullard RI exclusively, but it turned out to be more less a failure as quality control was finding a high failure rate and presold orders where not being filled, causing months of delays.

Quality was excellent initialy, but GT couldn't catch up with demand. A number of defective tubes were sold in the spot market instead of being discarded/destroyed.

The "Mullard" RI used GE-sourced equipment, the same gear GT had used before for their 6CA7 and that they'd use later for the 6L6GE. All of it was dismantled, then shipped to China in 2002, where production resumed at Shuguang.

[Cliff Schecht]

FYL this is great information! Keep it coming!