Express + 6V6 + American-voiced speaker + open-back 1x12 = ?

[dayn]

How do 6V6's and/or an "American" (as opposed to "British") voiced speaker in a 1x12 cab change the tone and feel of an Express (Ceriatone in this case)?

[Cliff Schecht]

No matter what, it'll always sound like a Ceriatone .

6V6's and an American style cab sounds about how you would expect, more Fendery. Good cleans are harder to achieve with 6V6's in an Express, something to bear in mind. You still get a lot of feel out of the amp, you just lose a bit of dynamic range. The voicing also changes a bit, you sacrifice a bit of high end and clarity for a very smooth sounding overdrive, great for blues and slide work. I prefer the bark of a good set of EL34's though, nothing cuts through the mix better without offending the surrounding musicians or other listeners (they usually turn to you and smile instead).

[RJ Guitars]

No matter what, it'll always sound like a Ceriatone ...

Cliff, some guys claim that a Heyboer vintage or a Pacific output tranny will make a big difference (for the better) in a Ceriatone. I can't say I know that for myself because I've never had the opportunity to make the change. Just wondering where (if ever) the transition line from Ceriatone to"wreckish" might be expected to occur? That is, how many parts will you need to change to get closer to a "clone" than a Ceriatone?


Not to get too far off the track, there are two pretty good questions in the original post.

I know the overwhelming preference is for the EL-34's with a few rare reports of 6V6 excellence. I have to admit I've never heard a posted clip of a 6V6 that I can really recall as being fantastic but they certainly might exist. It's funny that Ken Fischer went to some trouble to accommodate the 6V6's but nobody really seems to embrace them.

As far as the the speakers go it seems like every really fantastic clip I hear usually has a quad of 12's in a Marshall cabinet.

rj

[JamesHealey]

I love my Express clone with 6V6's recorded an EP with it.

http://www.myspace.com/germainband

all the lead guitar work and ALL guitars on Maybe it's fine are 6V6 Express through a 1x12 Cab, G12H30 70th Anniversary Reissue Speaker.

[Cliff Schecht]

Yeah with the right speaker, 6V6's sound absolutely killer. I run them when I'm running a 4x12 and need to tame the highs just a bit. Again, think a bit softer in the highs (higher plate-cathode resistance) and a smooth overdrive. Definitely doesn't tear off your head like EL34's.

I'll try to shove some good 6V6's in my amp and record something eventually. I've stuck with the EL34 sets I traded with Andy for because I'm cheap but they have held up well so far and sound consistently good. But when I'm in the studio, I always bring a great set of old Sylvania's (grey glass, black plate dealies) that I found sounded great in the Express. Haven't tried a modern 6V6 in the Express although I am curious how that beefy 6V6 JJ makes sounds..

I think the Express can also be very bright with an open back cab. You really have to find the right speaker to pull this off, and I haven't yet. Maybe others have some better insight on this.

Also, with the Ceriatone thing, I was really just making a joke. It's a great platform for starting, relatively inexpensive and much easier than sourcing the parts yourself. I just hate how cheesy the PCB's and really the whole things look. Plus I don't know if those Ceriatone electrolytics are any good, they look cheesy. You would think that you could change transformers, tubes and caps to get closer to a real Express but I suspect that it still not as good as starting your own build from scratch and starting with correct parts. I haven't heard too many Ceriatone clips that I was impressed with TBH.

[dayn]

Thanks for the insight guys!

At this point I don't have the experience or time to build my own so I picked up a Ceriatone with 6V6's and have it housed in a 1x12 open back combo cab.

I just ordered an Eminence FDM Maverick speaker, the American voiced one that allows a 9 db drop by varying the flux density of the magnet. It also gets bassier and darker when turned down. That will help tame the open back cab brightness and give lower volume as well.

James...LOVE the music, and I think the 6V6 Wreck sounds great in your hands! Thanks for sharing the link to your music.

[JamesHealey]

thankyou for the kind words

[RJ Guitars]

James,

I kinda recall listening to some of your clips at a previous time but had forgotten that you used the 6V6 amp. Have you ever run a TAG thread on tweaking a 6V6 Express into the zone? I've always wondered if anyone had invested a lot of effort into making the 6V6 do all it can. Sounds like you might know some of the tricks if you don't mind sharing?

thanks,

rj

[Richie]

the caps ceriatone use are good caps. He has them made for him and are 105 degree caps. The Ceriatones do not sound like Wreck amps,if you've had one to compare side by side.
And not saying they sound bad, they just sound different. But no reason you couldn't Use the correct transformers, and i myself hate the teflon wire. Nik would probably build it any way you wanted if you ask him.
I also doubt they sit and measure the parts used in the amp. Use good 6v6s too. Or try the amp using other tubes,you may find you really like them. EL34s have a softer compressed sound to them than some other tubes. If you step out of the 'all original" box, there are many simple things that make the amp really nice.Or make it more like what you might want it. As Ken also did a few things to voice the amps to what people were after.

[M Fowler]

I had Nik build me an Express a few years ago while I was building my Liverpool.

The Ceriatone amp (Ceriatone trannies) is louder then my own Express builds (heyboer & Pacific trannies). I recently switched the dual OT from 6k6 to 5k2 on the Ceriatone Express and that opened that amps sound up a whole lot better. Nik was quite surprized with my findings.

Mark

[JamesHealey]

Rj i did nothing special just used jj 6v6 and ttungsol reissue ecc83 the amp was stock. I prefer electroharmonix 6v6 these days.. open back 1x12 cab and g12h30 reissue speaker. Stock prs custom 24 and atlas luxurious guitar. Volume at just over half way and pretty much everything else at noon.. then my fingers lol

[dayn]

Allright, got the Eminence Maverick FDM speaker installed and tested for 1/2 hour yesterday in the 1x12 Ceriatone Expression open back combo with 6V6's.

Obviously needs to be broken in, but it definitely does give a significant volume drop (range is 100 db down to 91.5 db) without the annoying coloration of an attenuator (I have tried several..trainwreck, kendrick, dr.z, weber). It doesn't change the sound as much as I would expect. In fact I had hoped it would make it even more warm and bassy at full attenuation, but the affect is not dramatic, though certainly useful and eq-able.

So far I am impressed with an initial test and with my EVH "signature" Parker Fly I was getting an almost acoustic-like clean tone, but could still dig in ala Mark Knopfler. Perfect for me...like a singer/songwriter type amp. Very expressive.

[dayn]

I just noticed that my Ceriatone Expression with 6V6s has a 1/2 power switch, and a 6K6 or 5K2 switch.

What is happening on the amp to make it 1/2 power?

What does the primary tap switch do, and can I have it on either setting with 6V6s and an 8ohm speaker?

[JamesHealey]

yeah 5k2 and 6k6 are perfectly within spec although with 6V6s the advised load is 6k6 and 5k2 and the high voltages on a Wreck will surely run your tubes out a bit sooner than 6k6.

5k2 is great for EL34s, 6k6 is great too.. Try them both they're different personally I like 6k6 for all applications for an Express.

1/2 power switch on a 2 tube amp can mean only one thing Triode/Pentode switching which isn't really that usefulvolume wise, but atleast Triode and Pentode sound different nice tonal pallet.

[dayn]

Thanks James.

I think I prefer the sound of 6K6, and also half power (not sure if that is triode or pentode).

I am running it fairly clean with volume not up past 9 o'clock, so probably won't go through tubes no matter what setting as infrequently as I get to play.