2010 TwoRock Artist clips and soon pics

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Max
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Re: 2010 TwoRock Artist clips and soon pics

Post by Max »

mlp-mx6 wrote:
carlygtr56 wrote:No Dumble in sight!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWCd0TROcBI
On the original album this track (Prison of Love) was cut with a Deluxe Reverb, not the Dumble.
Hi mlp-mx6,

Do you remember the source of this info?

@carlygtr56

Thanks a lot for your link to this YouTube clip. He had obviously lots of fun! Yeah!

And your clip did lead me to this one from the days his "green light Dumble" was still a "classic" (but who cares what amp is played when he plays like this):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKGP6y5Anm4

Did not know it up to now and love it! So Thanks for this one too!
dogears wrote:Listen to the lowend harmonic complexity on Rugged Road. The Artist has NONE of it.
Indeed!

And Scott,

Thanks a lot for these three great RF clips! Fantastic music, fantastic playing and all this with a fantastic voice on top!

All the best,

Max
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Structo
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Re: 2010 TwoRock Artist clips and soon pics

Post by Structo »

Does Robben ever play his Esprit's (Sig model) anymore or any of his Baker's?

Seems like on most videos he is either playing his Telecaster or 335.
Tom

Don't let that smoke out!
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Bob-I
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Re: 2010 TwoRock Artist clips and soon pics

Post by Bob-I »

Structo wrote:Does Robben ever play his Esprit's (Sig model) anymore or any of his Baker's?

Seems like on most videos he is either playing his Telecaster or 335.
From what I've seen he retired those guitars a few years ago. The 335 is fairly new to him but the Tele and Les Pauls including that very cool custom made Les Paul style guitar have been around for awhile.

On another note, I have one of the Squier Esprit's that Fender made for a short time. Very cool guitar for $300.
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Structo
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Re: 2010 TwoRock Artist clips and soon pics

Post by Structo »

Yeah, I would love to get my hands on one of the original Esprits.
Tom

Don't let that smoke out!
mlp-mx6
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Re: 2010 TwoRock Artist clips and soon pics

Post by mlp-mx6 »

Max wrote:
mlp-mx6 wrote:On the original album this track (Prison of Love) was cut with a Deluxe Reverb, not the Dumble.
Hi mlp-mx6,

Do you remember the source of this info?
I want to say it was an interview in Guitar Player back around that time. I'll see if I can find it when I get home. (I may still have the GP issues from that time frame.)

Regardless, listen closely and you'll find a thinner, more Fender-ish Deluxe-Reverb-ish tone on that track. It does not sound like a Dumble at all.
Wife: How many amps do you need?
Me: Just one more...
Mr Dumble
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Re: 2010 TwoRock Artist clips and soon pics

Post by Mr Dumble »

carlygtr56 wrote:
dogears wrote:Pink Unicorns and Magical Flying Horses!!

Reinventing the rules of physics with this one Tag. It is impossible for the Artist to nail all the tones. The circuit is a basic Skyline. It doesn't have the Ojai tweaks for instance. Therefore, it cannot do those tones. Not even close. No puffery here please.

Here are a few examples of what the Artist cannot remotely touch. Not even a slight bit. Furthermore, for me, these are the unobtanium grail, not Revelation which is the easiest and most basic Dumble tone Robben has had. Listen to the lowend harmonic complexity on Rugged Road. The Artist has NONE of it.

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/shawn/01RuggedRoad.m4a

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/shawn/VillageBlues.mp3

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/ftp/DumbleTone.mp3

Mr Dumble wrote: Seriously, the Artist can do any of Fords tones with ease.

No Dumble in sight!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWCd0TROcBI
Good post Carl. Scott and I have talked many times about rugged road, and I have always maintained that what he was hearing in that track was a Tele. Thats what I have always used when I wanted a rugged road type of tone.
Max
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Re: 2010 TwoRock Artist clips and soon pics

Post by Max »

dogears wrote:Reinventing the rules of physics with this one Tag. It is impossible for the Artist to nail all the tones. The circuit is a basic Skyline. It doesn't have the Ojai tweaks for instance. Therefore, it cannot do those tones. Not even close.

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/shawn/01RuggedRoad.m4a
Hi Scott,

From which source did you get the info that the Overdrive Special which Robben Ford used for this "Rugged Road" version did not have a "basic Skyline" circuit like the "Artist" but already a circuit with the current "Ojai tweaks" of his green light, green switches ODS?

All the best and a have nice weekend,

Max
dogears
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Re: 2010 TwoRock Artist clips and soon pics

Post by dogears »

All I know is that the tone on this recording has the same low end texture as the tan amp. Whether it was Ojaied or not, I cannot say with certainty. I can say with 1000000% certainty, that I have never heard or played a Two Rock that even hints to this tone. Not close at all. Not a little. Anyone who says otherwise either has no ear or an agenda.

Just listen to the bottom end texture. The tan amp (known as the Ojai circuit) possesses this bass. I have experienced it first hand. The prior Ford releases do not have this texture.

Max wrote:
dogears wrote:Reinventing the rules of physics with this one Tag. It is impossible for the Artist to nail all the tones. The circuit is a basic Skyline. It doesn't have the Ojai tweaks for instance. Therefore, it cannot do those tones. Not even close.

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/shawn/01RuggedRoad.m4a
Hi Scott,

From which source did you get the info that the Overdrive Special which Robben Ford used for this "Rugged Road" version did not have a "basic Skyline" circuit like the "Artist" but already a circuit with the current "Ojai tweaks" of his green light, green switches ODS?

All the best and a have nice weekend,

Max
Mr Dumble
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Re: 2010 TwoRock Artist clips and soon pics

Post by Mr Dumble »

dogears wrote: Anyone who says otherwise either has no ear or an agenda.


Damn Scott. Take a deep breath and relax. You know I have a good ear and zero agenda. You have never played an artist, and it has more than enough bottom for even the most anemic teles. Those are old Ford tones and sound nothing like his newer Blue moon and post B.moon tones which I dislike anyway. All those friggin ear splitting bright caps and cables that suck tone IMO. None of that stuff is needed for those vintage Ford tones. I stood right in front of the guy and his tones then and now are totally different. Its the guitar thats throwing you on RR, and it sounds double tracked as well. I had my Artist on top of #183 for months, and the two are EXTREMELY similar as well. Its a great amp that can be boughtcheaply if you can ever find one. No one wants to sell them! :(
Max
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Re: 2010 TwoRock Artist clips and soon pics

Post by Max »

Mr Dumble wrote:I have a good ear
Hi Mr Dumble,

a bold claim. Let's see: Which kind of guitar amp or modelling device has been used to record the attached guitar tracks?

"Signal chain": Stock Fender Stratocaster with stock Fender single coil pickups > Monster Studio Pro 1000 > guitar amp / modelling device with some kind of power amp > cabinet > Sennheiser MD 421 N > Telefunken TAB V76 > Mytek 8x192 > Logic 9

The amount of effects on these guitar tracks is less than 10%. Additionaly some overall ambience has been added of course in the mastering process.

Hic Rhodos, hic salta!

Have a nice weekend,

Max
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Mr Dumble
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Re: 2010 TwoRock Artist clips and soon pics

Post by Mr Dumble »

Max wrote:
Mr Dumble wrote:I have a good ear
Hi Mr Dumble,

a bold claim. Let's see: Which kind of guitar amp or modelling device has been used to record the attached guitar tracks?

"Signal chain": Stock Fender Stratocaster with stock Fender single coil pickups > Monster Studio Pro 1000 > guitar amp / modelling device with some kind of power amp > cabinet > Sennheiser MD 421 N > Telefunken TAB V76 > Mytek 8x192 > Logic 9

The amount of effects on these guitar tracks is less than 10%. Additionaly some overall ambience has been added of course in the mastering process.

Hic Rhodos, hic salta!

Have a nice weekend,

Max

:roll: I do not use amp modeling devices, nor have I ever tried one. My ear is good enough to tell you that all those tones are thin, buzzy and tin can like to me, but the playing is pretty nice. Want me to test you now and watch you fail? :wink: Come on. Lets stop the BS and get real. :)
Max
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Re: 2010 TwoRock Artist clips and soon pics

Post by Max »

Mr Dumble wrote: :roll: I do not use amp modeling devices, nor have I ever tried one. My ear is good enough to tell you that all those tones are thin, buzzy and tin can like to me, but the playing is pretty nice.
Hi Mr Dumble,

I am sorry that perhaps I did not make clear enough my question. So please let me try again to avoid misunderstandings:

AFAIR you always introduce/d and present/ed yourself here and elsewhere as someone who has a lot of practical and personal experience with a lot of different musical instruments including many different brands and specimens of guitar amps. And AFAIR you always introduce/d and present/ed yourself here and elsewhere as someone with a pair of extremely well trained ears to hear and to detect even the most subtle differences between the sound and tone of different amps.

If all this should not be the case and just some kind of misunderstanding or prejudice of me, then please correct me.

But if you are the tone expert that you always claim/ed to be AFAIR, then I think you should be able to answer my question. And my question was not if you like the tone of these three clips or if you may perceive them as thin or buzzy or however.

My question was "What kind of guitar amp or modelling device has been used?", and not "Do you like this guitar amp or modelling device which has been used for all these three recordings?"

So please let me ask the same question (at least in my opinion) again, but in a different way to make its content perhaps a bit more clear.

Imagine this e-mail or PM:

Dear Mr Dumble,

I've read on "The Amp Garage" and the "The Gear Page" sites that you are a sound and tone expert and that you have a lot of personal experience with a lot of different guitars and guitar amps. Now I need your advice. I've been booked for a recording session. Here is a list of the recording gear which will be used for the guitar tracks.

And here are three mp3 files. On these three mp3 files you hear precisely the kind of lead guitar tone that the producer wants me to achieve for this recording session. Of course I know that you personally don’t like this kind of guitar tones. But I am a session player and have to achieve the tone the producer asks for. And he did send me these three files in order to make more clear what he wants. And I know what kind of guy this producer is and - believe me - it wouldn't be wise to argue with him regarding this.

So please tell me - based on your vast knowledge about the tone and sound of different guitars in combination with different guitar amps and by using your good and well trained ears - what kind of guitar amplifier you would recommend me to use for this session. I know that you don't have personal experiences with modelling amps, so please recommend just one of the many usual guitar amps you know. Thanks a lot in advance.

Best regards,

Max


I hope that this "example" perhaps makes the content of my question a bit more clear. If not, please just ask.

And IMO someone who has the knowledge, the experience and the good ears you always claim/ed to have should be able to answer such a kind of question.
Mr Dumble wrote:Want me to test you now and watch you fail? :wink:
"Tu quoque (pronounced /tjuːˈkwoʊkwɛ/ [1]), or the appeal to hypocrisy, is a kind of logical fallacy. It is a Latin term for "you, too" or "you, also". A tu quoque argument attempts to discredit the opponent's position by asserting his failure to act consistently in accordance with that position; it attempts to show that a criticism or objection applies equally to the person making it. It is considered an ad hominem argument, since it focuses on the party itself, rather than its positions.[2]"

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque see also: http://www.fallacyfiles.org/tuquoque.html

All the best and a nice weekend,

Max
dogears
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Re: 2010 TwoRock Artist clips and soon pics

Post by dogears »

Tag,

(you know I still love you)

I know exactly what I am saying. It is not the guitar because the tan amp does the thing it does even with the Baker. Listen to Live Jing Chi!

You have never posted anything remotely close to that tone. I have had numerous Two Rocks here and none got close. And, nobody ever has posted a TR clip that gets into the same universe.

Now you admit that you don't care for all the newer tones anyway. So, why do you boast that your basic Skyline (just like what most build) will nail all the RF tones?? It won't. I have invested thousands of hours in this and it does get my BP up when you make all these totally unsubstantiated and impossible claims. Claims I have disproven time and time again.....

You cannot get the newer (Rugged Road on) RF tones with any Two Rock I have heard or played.

You opened the door when you said that your amp nails all of them.....

Now stick to the subject. I let you post some clips and pics of your TR. Keep it on point and without the claims of superiority....
Mr Dumble wrote:
dogears wrote: Anyone who says otherwise either has no ear or an agenda.


Damn Scott. Take a deep breath and relax. You know I have a good ear and zero agenda. You have never played an artist, and it has more than enough bottom for even the most anemic teles. Those are old Ford tones and sound nothing like his newer Blue moon and post B.moon tones which I dislike anyway. All those friggin ear splitting bright caps and cables that suck tone IMO. None of that stuff is needed for those vintage Ford tones. I stood right in front of the guy and his tones then and now are totally different. Its the guitar thats throwing you on RR, and it sounds double tracked as well. I had my Artist on top of #183 for months, and the two are EXTREMELY similar as well. Its a great amp that can be boughtcheaply if you can ever find one. No one wants to sell them! :(
Last edited by dogears on Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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erwin_ve
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Re: 2010 TwoRock Artist clips and soon pics

Post by erwin_ve »

Scott, what's your opinion on the bass content of the Ojai?
Why is it so different?
I like to hear/discuss some of technical aspects of it.
bluesfendermanblues
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Re: 2010 TwoRock Artist clips and soon pics

Post by bluesfendermanblues »

erwin_ve wrote:Scott, what's your opinion on the bass content of the Ojai?
Why is it so different?
I like to hear/discuss some of technical aspects of it.
My guess is it's a larger OD1 cap value, giving more bass into OD2.
Diva or not? - Respect for Mr. D's work....)
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