Vishay response RE: Atom capacitors

[ampdan]

Though I personally have had no failures using them, others say they have, and there have been lots of internet mention of "offshore" manufacturing. So, I went to the source. This was their response. I deleted his phone #'s and email.

Dear Mr.



Thank you for your interest in, and fidelity to, our Sprague TVA Atom caps.



These products have been manufactured in the same facility in the US since Sprague first launched them. There are no Atom caps being manufactured offshore by Vishay.



Now, I am curious about the failures you mentioned, could you give me some more details? We have had cases of counterfeit Vishay products in the market, including aluminum capacitors, although I have never seen a case with TVA Atoms. Given their popularity in segments such as Audio, I wouldn’t be surprised if somebody would have seen that as an opportunity.



Please feel free to contact me in case of any doubt



Regards





Walter Bonomo

Director Product Marketing Aluminium Capacitors

Senior Manager Regional Marketing Aluminium Capacitors and MLCC Europe

[gearhead]

Counterfeit would 'splain why most folks (on this board) have bailed on using em.

Interesting thread just ran across: https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... om+sprague

[FYL]

These products have been manufactured in the same facility in the US since Sprague first launched them. There are no Atom caps being manufactured offshore by Vishay.

The TVA series have been manufactured for eons by United Chemi-Con (a subsidiary of Nippon Chemi-Con) in Lansing, North Carolina.

[CaseyJones]

Thank you for your interest in, and fidelity to, our Sprague TVA Atom caps...

These products have been manufactured in the same facility in the US since Sprague first launched them. There are no Atom caps being manufactured offshore by Vishay.

Ummm... nope. I'd think the guy would know company history. The "Atoms" were first manufactured at Sprague's long defunct North Adams, Massachusetts plant. Adams, Atoms. Get it?

Now, I am curious about the failures you mentioned, could you give me some more details? We have had cases of counterfeit Vishay products in the market, including aluminum capacitors, although I have never seen a case with TVA Atoms. Given their popularity in segments such as Audio, I wouldn’t be surprised if somebody would have seen that as an opportunity.

Counterfeit, bullshit. I get 'em from Mouser, Mouser gets 'em from Vishay. We test every last one of 'em on our LC75. That weeds out the open ones. Never seen a dud with a couple other brands, have seen duds with the Atoms.

[aclempoppi]

So the botom line is that the Atoms are made here in the US, but suffer from QC problems ? Art

[Richie]

https://tubeamparchive.com/download/file.php?id=11867

read the parts is parts thread.. i know i quit using the sprague TVA.

And if you look back at some of the other posts of radial caps being put inside axial caps, wrong values and voltage compared to the axial cap label. But these were from overseas.. Not Sprague.. usually looks like a non polar cap with a crimp on each end, and both ends having a rubber stopper..

So beware, where you get caps now days.

[jaysg]

I had a 10uF 100V die. I bought it from mouser. I doubt it was fake. One is enough for me.

[renshen1957]

Hi,

I read the parts thread (over its entirety) and links in the posts; I drew some conclusions.

A number of posters came up with something on the order of "I had an Atom fail but never had a Illinois Caps, F & T (for the power supply) fail."

I guess your mileage will vary.

Well, I know two builders, one of them the author of the The Ultimate Tone series, who doesn't share the opinion of Illinois Caps, at least of his books and a number of his internet posts state to the contrary and warns, "...Illinois Cap, as their quality is very poor. You get what you pay for in this case." Communication with KOC in this last year hasn't changed his opinion (he uses high value Solen PP caps in the power supply), which he attributed his IC comments to bitter past experience.

Likewise, some other builder/repairers in Europe warned against F & T after repairing amps in which the cap gave up the ghost in a very short time. They warned me to stay away from them, they fail within 2 years of constant use.

I found that Mouser is the most expensive place to purchase Sprague Atoms 1906, $15.56 when I last checked, I can find them for about $9.00 less retail on one DIY website, and when in stock for $10.00 less at CEDist.com (I have a wholesale account) for the 20uf 500V 1906 Atoms.

I can get Solen Fast PP 22uf 630V caps wholesale for less money than an Atom 20uf 600V cap (the next voltage up) and expect it to outlast the amp and myself. Of course having that clean, quick, and silent power supply might not help you get the amp you are looking for, you certainly would need space to use a Solen cap of this size.

I can say I haven't had an Atom ever fail on me (or test open)and have used them in repairs with no problem, but component failure among new stock does happen with any manufacture item. People are human, well some of them are, and make errors.

There are a lot of good E-caps out there, however the computer moniter industry drives the cap market. The product life expentancy (upgrades, new equipment, ect) isn't measured in decades. Then there is the land fill electronics. There are some commericial grade/consumer product grade caps are rated at as little as 2,000 hour.

Other than stacking radial caps (not exactly cheap, either), the only alternative is to have transformers rate at 300-0-300 so the 450 volt radials will do the job. But what if you are "cloning" a Dumble? Or some of the earlier Marshalls?

Sozo's boutique E caps have ratings of 87,000 hours but these are 100uf 350V and meant to be stacked in a power supply for 1967/68 10xxx and 12xxx series of 100 watt Marshalls.

I won't use a multi-cap can, so I guess the best course is to test every component before a build (which I do anyway) and hope for the best.

Best Regards,

Steve

[aclempoppi]

Yeah Richie, I'm familiar with those past threads. That's what got me to look a little harder at the power supply caps. Thanks for the reply. I have tried the Solen caps in NFB & pre amp circuits, with good success. But haven't tried them in the power supply. Steve, what is your opinion of the Solen caps in mid sixty BF Fenders ? I know you kind of touched on the subject, but can you elaborate ? Art

[David Root]

I don't have anything against multi-cap cans except they do limit your grounding options. This isn't an insuperable problem to me.

With a lay down PT which is what I prefer, can caps leave a lot more available space inside the chassis than do individual axial caps. Unless you're fixated on "precision" power supplies, that is a plus.

[Alexo]

I just use the F&T cap cans, 2 caps to 1 ground still leaves a lot of grounding options open. Plus they are mighty convenient for the PTP builds..

[renshen1957]

Yeah Richie, I'm familiar with those past threads. That's what got me to look a little harder at the power supply caps. Thanks for the reply. I have tried the Solen caps in NFB & pre amp circuits, with good success. But haven't tried them in the power supply. Steve, what is your opinion of the Solen caps in mid sixty BF Fenders ? I know you kind of touched on the subject, but can you elaborate ? Art

The amp sounds cleaner, quicker, but may sound different from what one might expect from a 60's BF Fender. The best explanation has to do with the distortion character of lower value E-Caps. Very high value E-caps don't seem to have this character (part of the reason for their use in Hi-Fi). I have had a suggestion to by-pass the cap with a ceramic disc to recapture the sound, but haven't tried this of yet.

I am going to try Solens and some E Caps in compination in my next build.

Best Regards,

Steve

[aclempoppi]

Thanks, Steve. Don't do much amp repair anymore, but I still like to tinker with my amps. Art

[renshen1957]

I don't have anything against multi-cap cans except they do limit your grounding options. This isn't an insuperable problem to me.

With a lay down PT which is what I prefer, can caps leave a lot more available space inside the chassis than do individual axial caps. Unless you're fixated on "precision" power supplies, that is a plus.

Hi,

My preference is for proper grounding rather than a precision power supply fixation. For amps in a professional studio recording situation, this is a plus.

(That said, I do add decoupling to the power supply for all the preamp tubes.)

My issue with Multi-cap cans are a common negative lug will interact and modulate currents to break-up ground integrity. Cascading gain stages tied to common negative can lead to oscillation as a result. In a high gain amp this is important, in a tweed clone not so.

Quite a few preamp stages (without motor boating) can be tied to a single node (cap can negative lug), but a noise penalty is incurred. I use multi-cap cans but only if all of the caps are tied to make an equivalent "single section" cap.

If and when someone such as Weber comes out with Multi Cap Cans in higher voltage (500V) with a separate negative lug for each cap (which their website claims) with quite a lot more than 2,000 hours (83 days) of full voltage playing time, I would use and recommend them.

One can use active regulation (MOSFETs or BJT with plastic caps of lower voltage for a very lower impedance supply, aka precision power supply) or multiple stacked radial caps without too much of a size penalty inside the chassis.

Larger components do have one advantage, larger spacing between components which reduces parasitic capactances. Of course one can achieve the same using larger spacings (not jamming everything into a smaller area).

Each method has its good points; multi cap cans work and are one choice for filter capacitors at higher voltage.


Best Regards,

Steve Foss