$60 caps?

[Cliff Schecht]

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/member- ... ckage.html

[PlinytheWelder]

That's for the Les Paul folks that need a period correct cap for their multi kilobuck guitar. It's a distorted market.

[RevD]

And probably a 1.69 or less cap would work, but then it wouldn't be a 'Bumblebee' and they couldn't put it in they're signature of all the mods to they're expensive guitars. Trust me I like a lot of the forum over there, but a few of them need to calm down and not worry about using something 'not approved by the rank and file experts'. Not to single them out though, many amp builders do the same with the spragues etc., I guess its because I don't have the disposable money they do and I'm cheap truth be told. And yeah if its a period correct situation you don't have many options, many of them though are putting them into reissues just because, but then again many of them may hear a difference, I donno.

Regards,

Rev D.

[jelle]

Different caps have different sounds in that spot. Try it and then decide.

[PCollen]

Different caps have different sounds in that spot. Try it and then decide.

In a frequency-dumping circuit ? I doubt you could hear any difference except for differences in marked vs. actual capacitance value. I just read a study about this in one of the TedWeber.com kitbuilding forums; I'll try to find and post a link to it later ( I can't get to it from my work computer). The conclusion was: save your money unless you are restoring an instrument to historic specs.

[selloutrr]

it's all about resale and mojo a $60 cap buys you the name and hopefully it's a good cap so you also get the tone. but when you go to sell your guitar it might get you an extra $100 or seal the deal on a flooded market.

if you are a collector you want the correct piece if you are a player you can get the same, similar, or better for a couple dollars.

[Alexo]

Most of that 60 bucks is due to the cap being in the original packaging, just like an old Star Wars action figure..... it's kind of a rare thing.

However, for the sake of argument, it stands to reason, to me, that you could hear the "tone" of a cap just as much when it's passing treble to ground as when it's passing treble to a err.. not-ground. i.e. in series.

[tribi9]

Holy crap I got one of those in the same value from a $20 dollar Kalamazoo amp score.

[jaysg]

iirc, simply changing ceramic caps out for film caps gets you the biggest bang. That last 5% is always an adventure.

[PCollen]

Here is a link to the guitar tone-cap test I mentioned in an earlier reply today:


"tone" capacitor test
« on: July 04, 2010, 07:21:54 PM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.aqdi.com/tonecap.htm

[PCollen]

Most of that 60 bucks is due to the cap being in the original packaging, just like an old Star Wars action figure..... it's kind of a rare thing.

However, for the sake of argument, it stands to reason, to me, that you could hear the "tone" of a cap just as much when it's passing treble to ground as when it's passing treble to a err.. not-ground. i.e. in series.

I think that the ability to hear that difference would be directly proportional to the cost of the cap.

[flood]

Most of that 60 bucks is due to the cap being in the original packaging, just like an old Star Wars action figure..... it's kind of a rare thing.

However, for the sake of argument, it stands to reason, to me, that you could hear the "tone" of a cap just as much when it's passing treble to ground as when it's passing treble to a err.. not-ground. i.e. in series.

I think that the ability to hear that difference would be directly proportional to the cost of the cap.

you have hit the nail most squarey on the noggin. 1000 internets to you, wise sir.

[jelle]

Different caps have different sounds in that spot. Try it and then decide.

In a frequency-dumping circuit ? I doubt you could hear any difference except for differences in marked vs. actual capacitance value.

If you are not sure...and I read from your post that you are in fact not sure, then I'd suggest to test it. I did test different ceramics, polyester, 715, and paper in oil caps. I heard a difference.

Now, whether that grail cap is worths 60 bucks is another discussion.

[passfan]

I dig these and the black beauties out of old organ amplifiers all the time. I just gave my guitar tech 2 or 3 last week. All my guitars have them in them.

[orrong65]

Interesting comments about the effect of different capacitors in guitar tone circuits.

I understand the empirical results in the Atlantic QD link, but how then do you explain the significant differences heard by a panel of seasoned musicians and audio constructors for humbuckers in the Tonequest Jan 2009 edition (page 15)? Here are two quotes:


'.................Our experience with a broad range of modern and ‘vintage’ tone capacitors has led us to conclude that modern ceramic disk
and polypropylene caps produce a comparatively sterile, linear sound. Some suppliers of pre-wired pickguards and harnesses like to use Orange Drop caps as a way of elevating the perceived value
of their work, but we don’t like them in guitars any more than we
do in many amplifiers..............

'......................Our favorite old tone caps include the ‘50s .02 400V Cornell-Dublier Grey Tigers marked ‘GT452,’ Cornell-Dublier Black Cats, Sprague Bumblees (in some, but not all guitars), and turquoise ‘Greenie’ Cornell-Dublier .02/400V caps. All three versions of the Cornell-Dubliers seem to impart a smoother, fuller vocal quality. True old Bumblebees can be identified by their red/orange/grey/yellow stripes and a tiny ‘2’ stamped inside the small circle found on either side of the stripes. Bumblebees are otherwise identical to another sought-after cap, the Sprague Black Beauty. These old Sprague caps often seem to significantly brighten the tone of our guitars – sometimes too much, but we do like them in fat-sounding Gibsons that can benefit from the added bite the Spragues usually impart. We say usually because these old caps are marked with a stated value of + or - 10%, and may be off as much as
20% today. Typical values appropriate for Les Pauls are .02 mfd/bridge
and .02-.15 mfd/neck. Many of the old caps being sold for guitars today
have been pulled from amps, TVs and radios, either to be sold to tone-afflicted guitarists like you, or because they had originally drifted too far out of spec. Buyer beware – not everyone owns a capacitance meter. Your best bet for approaching the look and sound of vintage caps without the risk and expense are the repro Sprague and Cornell-Dublier caps made by Luxe and sold by RS Guitarworks and Acme Guitarworks. You can usually find the old caps referenced here on eBay, or at Angela Instruments…......................


These guys have been around the vintage guitar business a long time and they wont say they can hear a difference if it isnt there.