Hey guys,
As some of you will remember I recently converted a 2 x 6V6 amp to a Rocket.
I like this amp so well I have decided to build a head cab for it.
I know lots of you guys with TW amps have built your own cabs so I have a couple questions.
I think I am going to try finger or box joints as I have a table saw and can put a dado blade on it.
My question is about the round over on the outside edges.
I need to buy a router and some bits.
Do you use a 1/2" round over bit for the outside edges?
I have one plan for a Marshall style cab that will work for this.
It calls for a 1/8 round over on the front inside edges.
Is it best to route all these edges after the four sides of the cab are put together into the box configuration or is it easier to route the separate pieces before gluing them up?
I can see where the two top left and right corner joints would have to be routed after glue up, I was just wondering what all you guys do before that stage.
I bought some red oak that is 1 x 8 (true dimensions are 3/4" x 7 1/2")
The front valance will be the same 3/4" wood, so I will also have to round over the front edge of that. That definitely will need to be routed before being attached.
Thanks for any tips about doing this as I have never built a cab before.
Building Head Cabinet
Moderators: pompeiisneaks, Colossal
Building Head Cabinet
Tom
Don't let that smoke out!
Don't let that smoke out!
Re: Building Head Cabinet
Definitely put the box together before you rout the outside round-overs. 1/2" bit is what I always use, and 1/4" for the 1/2" thick front piece, which yes needs to be done before it's attached obviously.
The main complaint I have with my set up is that the round-over bits are too big to fit through the router base/guide piece so I have to take it off and it makes leveling the router on the wood more difficult, but I just need to be careful. I use the standard porter cable router. It's really nice besides that.
The main complaint I have with my set up is that the round-over bits are too big to fit through the router base/guide piece so I have to take it off and it makes leveling the router on the wood more difficult, but I just need to be careful. I use the standard porter cable router. It's really nice besides that.
Re: Building Head Cabinet
Eddie, make a new router base out of 1/4" MDF (that's what I used), with a bigger hole in the center to accommodate the larger bits. You'll need a countersink bit so the three screws will sit flush. You'll be so glad you did. I use a Porter Cable router too, and use that base often.
FWIW, I use 3/8" round over on the outside edges, 1/4" on the panels and inside edges of the carcass.
Tom, have you done the box joints before? They can be hard to get right w/o the proper jig, at least it was for me. I built a jig that does a great job, but it's pretty involved for a one-time thing. Let me know if you're interested, and I'll find the plans for that jig and post a link.
Cheers,
-John
FWIW, I use 3/8" round over on the outside edges, 1/4" on the panels and inside edges of the carcass.
Tom, have you done the box joints before? They can be hard to get right w/o the proper jig, at least it was for me. I built a jig that does a great job, but it's pretty involved for a one-time thing. Let me know if you're interested, and I'll find the plans for that jig and post a link.
Cheers,
-John
Re: Building Head Cabinet
Amen brother. It's a simple looking joint but it has to be perfect. Take the time to set it up properly and cutting and assembling will be a snap. You'll spend more time setting it up than you will cutting and be sure to test it out during setup on some cheap pine or some scrap. Do not cut your oak until you have cut and properly assembled two boards. Once you see it's right then cut your oak.jhaas wrote:Eddie, make a new router base out of 1/4" MDF (that's what I used), with a bigger hole in the center to accommodate the larger bits. You'll need a countersink bit so the three screws will sit flush. You'll be so glad you did. I use a Porter Cable router too, and use that base often.
FWIW, I use 3/8" round over on the outside edges, 1/4" on the panels and inside edges of the carcass.
Tom, have you done the box joints before? They can be hard to get right w/o the proper jig, at least it was for me. I built a jig that does a great job, but it's pretty involved for a one-time thing. Let me know if you're interested, and I'll find the plans for that jig and post a link.
Cheers,
-John
"It Happens"
Forrest Gump
Forrest Gump
Re: Building Head Cabinet
Thanks Eddie and John.
Yeah I have a couple tutorials about the box joint jig.
Basically you make a sled with a index nub so that after the first groove you sit that groove over the nub and it spaces them correctly?
Does that sound about right?
The wood I bought is 7 1/2" wide so with 1/2" grooves it works out for the width.
I have never used a dado blade in my life so that will be interesting.
I see they have shims for between the blades.
The way I measured it out, the tongues and grooves will have to be exactly 1/2".
Not sure how much of a kerf a dado blade makes but I will definitely try on scrap wood first.
I saw one tutorial where the guy said to cut two pieces of wood at a time.
Like the two end pieces of the cab.
Is that a good idea or does it make it easier to screw up and slip, making a bad cut?
I never took much wood shop in school as I was always in either electronics or music classes for electives.
I've built a few guitars from parts but nothing from scratch so I am a lumber newbie for sure.
As for a router, I see some take only 1/4 inch bits while others have different collets for 1/4, 1/2, etc diameter shafts.
Is a 1/4" router enough or do I need the other sizes as well?
Yeah I have a couple tutorials about the box joint jig.
Basically you make a sled with a index nub so that after the first groove you sit that groove over the nub and it spaces them correctly?
Does that sound about right?
The wood I bought is 7 1/2" wide so with 1/2" grooves it works out for the width.
I have never used a dado blade in my life so that will be interesting.
I see they have shims for between the blades.
The way I measured it out, the tongues and grooves will have to be exactly 1/2".
Not sure how much of a kerf a dado blade makes but I will definitely try on scrap wood first.
I saw one tutorial where the guy said to cut two pieces of wood at a time.
Like the two end pieces of the cab.
Is that a good idea or does it make it easier to screw up and slip, making a bad cut?
I never took much wood shop in school as I was always in either electronics or music classes for electives.
I've built a few guitars from parts but nothing from scratch so I am a lumber newbie for sure.
As for a router, I see some take only 1/4 inch bits while others have different collets for 1/4, 1/2, etc diameter shafts.
Is a 1/4" router enough or do I need the other sizes as well?
Tom
Don't let that smoke out!
Don't let that smoke out!
Re: Building Head Cabinet
Tom,
The jig you mentioned is the common one. I tried that, without success. The problem is, any error in your finger size is compounded as you progress down the board. So if you finger is off even 1/128", after 8 cuts, you'll be 1/16" off.
I found the one I built, here it is:
http://www.leestyron.com/lynnjig.php
in PDF form:
http://www.leestyron.com/lynnsjig.pdf
It's a substantial jig to build, but it's worked great for me. The placement of the cut is done using a threaded rod, 16tpi, so one turn of the rod moves the wood exactly 1/16", and any error isn't compounded.
Another nice feature is that you can cut all four sides of a cab in one pass. Here's a picture of mine in action, where I'm doing just that.
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_rYf9n9CQ3bQ/SzlBO ... _2459x.jpg
As for the width of the cut, I use 1/2" too. It took some trial and error before I figured out exactly how much to shim it to get a snug fit, but not too snug. Then I forgot to write it down and had to go thru it again the next time!
Bit size - all the "real woodworkers" seem to swear by the 1/2" bits, so I spent a little more an got a nice Porter Cable that handles both 1/4" and 1/2". Haven't regretted it - I use it a lot.
John
The jig you mentioned is the common one. I tried that, without success. The problem is, any error in your finger size is compounded as you progress down the board. So if you finger is off even 1/128", after 8 cuts, you'll be 1/16" off.
I found the one I built, here it is:
http://www.leestyron.com/lynnjig.php
in PDF form:
http://www.leestyron.com/lynnsjig.pdf
It's a substantial jig to build, but it's worked great for me. The placement of the cut is done using a threaded rod, 16tpi, so one turn of the rod moves the wood exactly 1/16", and any error isn't compounded.
Another nice feature is that you can cut all four sides of a cab in one pass. Here's a picture of mine in action, where I'm doing just that.
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_rYf9n9CQ3bQ/SzlBO ... _2459x.jpg
As for the width of the cut, I use 1/2" too. It took some trial and error before I figured out exactly how much to shim it to get a snug fit, but not too snug. Then I forgot to write it down and had to go thru it again the next time!
Bit size - all the "real woodworkers" seem to swear by the 1/2" bits, so I spent a little more an got a nice Porter Cable that handles both 1/4" and 1/2". Haven't regretted it - I use it a lot.
John
-
CapnCrunch
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:26 am
- Location: Seattle
Re: Building Head Cabinet
Hey Tom,
Are you building the head cab with box joints for appearance sake? Box joints look cool, as do dovetails, but you absolutely don't need them for strength in a head cabinet. It is so much easier to build a head cab with simple miters or butt joints.
It's cool if you're after that specific look, and it's a good idea in a combo cab where you will have considerably more racking force applied to the joints. However, simple joints are more then adequate for a head cab. You could also do splined miters which are very strong and still easier to jig up for then finger joints. If you lived a little closer to me, I'd offer to build the cab for you in exchange for some help building a D-lite
Are you building the head cab with box joints for appearance sake? Box joints look cool, as do dovetails, but you absolutely don't need them for strength in a head cabinet. It is so much easier to build a head cab with simple miters or butt joints.
It's cool if you're after that specific look, and it's a good idea in a combo cab where you will have considerably more racking force applied to the joints. However, simple joints are more then adequate for a head cab. You could also do splined miters which are very strong and still easier to jig up for then finger joints. If you lived a little closer to me, I'd offer to build the cab for you in exchange for some help building a D-lite
Re: Building Head Cabinet
Hey Tom
Some thoughts:
I agree with the info on setting up a good jig for the finger joints. I would add that you need to be careful about the dado blade. What kind of dado do you have? Wobble or stacked? The wobbles are less accurate and sometime leave the bottom joint a little rounded requiring some clean up with small sharp chisels. The stacked are big, expensive and prone to chip out. For both do some testing. The hardest thing in doing finger on the table saw is keeping the wood flat to the saw, a big fence helps.
As to the round over. USE A .5 ROUTER!!! there I said it! It's much better to set up a router table than to try and do it trying to hold the router. Pay attention to your direction of cut. Routing end grain can lead to burns very quickly, and chip out, do multiple passes. Oak loves to chip!
Eric
Some thoughts:
I agree with the info on setting up a good jig for the finger joints. I would add that you need to be careful about the dado blade. What kind of dado do you have? Wobble or stacked? The wobbles are less accurate and sometime leave the bottom joint a little rounded requiring some clean up with small sharp chisels. The stacked are big, expensive and prone to chip out. For both do some testing. The hardest thing in doing finger on the table saw is keeping the wood flat to the saw, a big fence helps.
As to the round over. USE A .5 ROUTER!!! there I said it! It's much better to set up a router table than to try and do it trying to hold the router. Pay attention to your direction of cut. Routing end grain can lead to burns very quickly, and chip out, do multiple passes. Oak loves to chip!
Eric
Re: Building Head Cabinet
Wow, thanks for all the info guys.
Like I said I have never used a dado, don't have one yet.
I didn't realize there is that many differences between the different types of dado blades.
Yes the finger joints are mostly for appearance as this cab will be stained then Tru Oiled.
Tear outs or burns would be terrible in either the joint cutting or routing of the edges.
I already have a 1x8 72" long red oak board that I planned to use.
I can see where a tall fence would help keep the wood perpendicular with the saw table.
I've seen the jigs with the adjustable finger but I don't plan on building a bunch of cabs.
So not sure how much I want to invest in the jig.
I see I still have a bunch of research to do about this.
I had considered butt joints with glue cleats in the corners.
But I just don't think that would be that attractive in a natural wood cab.
Like I said I have never used a dado, don't have one yet.
I didn't realize there is that many differences between the different types of dado blades.
Yes the finger joints are mostly for appearance as this cab will be stained then Tru Oiled.
Tear outs or burns would be terrible in either the joint cutting or routing of the edges.
I already have a 1x8 72" long red oak board that I planned to use.
I can see where a tall fence would help keep the wood perpendicular with the saw table.
I've seen the jigs with the adjustable finger but I don't plan on building a bunch of cabs.
So not sure how much I want to invest in the jig.
I see I still have a bunch of research to do about this.
I had considered butt joints with glue cleats in the corners.
But I just don't think that would be that attractive in a natural wood cab.
Tom
Don't let that smoke out!
Don't let that smoke out!
Re: Building Head Cabinet
Tom
One thing you may want to consider is a dovetail router jig. These come very expensive and very cheap. There are jigs in the less than $50
http://www.amazon.com/MLCS-6406-Tails-B ... pd_cp_hi_2
They take some practice, mostly in learning about planing and shaping wood before you rout. While finger joints are simpler they are typically made on big tools. A 10" table saw or a dedicated router table. How big is your table saw? Belt or direct drive? As mentioned before, any time that you are moving the wood as opposed to moving the tool the wood, errors compound faster
Plan on practice.
Eric
One thing you may want to consider is a dovetail router jig. These come very expensive and very cheap. There are jigs in the less than $50
http://www.amazon.com/MLCS-6406-Tails-B ... pd_cp_hi_2
They take some practice, mostly in learning about planing and shaping wood before you rout. While finger joints are simpler they are typically made on big tools. A 10" table saw or a dedicated router table. How big is your table saw? Belt or direct drive? As mentioned before, any time that you are moving the wood as opposed to moving the tool the wood, errors compound faster
Plan on practice.
Eric