Various Schematics' Accuracy

[BTF]

May I respectfully and delicately ask:

Of all the schematics posted for the various Rockets and Expresses, which are supposedly the most accurate? I apologize for such a question, but with each schematic there always seems to be some uncertainty concerning its authenticity.

My sincerest thanks, BTF.

[selloutrr]

Probably the one's Ron has posted as layouts and schematics would be the best bet. It's always a hood idea to read the thread the schematic is attatched to. And make notes of any changes that have been pointed out.

[ampgeek]

I would agree.

Although I am still in the process of aquiring parts for an Express build, I have read a lot of posts and compared a bunch of Express schematics and those seem to account for it "all".

Definitely read the build guide early on in your quest. It is extremely helpful in many regards.

Not sure about the Rocket and others. But....I would have to believe the same assessment to be true with those.

Dave O.

[Richie]

Depends, most all models are similar, but they may have small changes here and there between amps. Some may use different brand parts,others the wiring may be different on the heaters or bright cap etc..

But you can look at the Fran pics and see what is what on that amp.
Others that have had amps on there bench have noted,and drawn schems,measured voltages etc..
I think as with anyone, the amps changed some,or he found better ways of building the amps, wiring under the boards on the PS, groundings etc... Some amps were also modified or fine tuned for the owner. But the overall models will be very much alike in layout and design.

The drawing for me would be 100 times harder than building the amp.
So if their are mistakes, you may not see them till someone points it out.
And if i was drawing, their would be alot of mistakes..lol

So it gets revised. Ron has done a heck of a job on the info.

[paulster]

I really think we ought to delete the Blue Guitar schematics though because people always seem to think they are possibly correct, when we know now just how far out they are. Or at the very least annotate them as such.

Exclude those and the ones we have posted are correct for the particular amps they refer to, with their slight differences between them (e.g. half power switch on Ginger, different bright switch wiring on Francesca).

[BTF]

Thanks to you all. A young man in my area (who currently has no access to the internet) has become enamored of Trainwrecks after seeing Brad Paisley with his Dr. Z./Trainwreck hybrid. This fellow has electrical knowledge, but little amplifier experience. He wants to build a clone and i hoped to get him as accurate a schematic as possible. I have no idea whether Paisley's is a Rocket or Express (I plan on searching).

Thanks again, Bill.

[gearhead]

BPs Trainwreck is a Liverpool.

I too would be all for putting the older schematics on ice. For some reason, there is always someone who thinks that older schematics are more accurate.

Despite the fact that numerous people on this board own or have access to real Trainwrecks. Or that the Francesca photos revolutionized the understanding of the layout so much in early 06 (and the "baby boom" of Expresses on 1 April 06, lol), way after the BG schematics.

[paulster]

Paisley actually has a genuine Liverpool (Hattie Mae) that he purchased a couple of years ago.

I believe the Z-Wreck is Rocket-based, which would seem to fit in with Paisley's penchant for vintage AC30s and Brunos, which are also takes on the AC30.

If you don't already know, the Rocket is a stripped-down AC30 Top Boost channel, but really benefits from the greatly simplified signal path. Great amp.

[M Fowler]

Brad Paisley also realies on his Stingray to get his vox like charm and that amp runs an EF86 in the first position vol, tone and cut controls. 35W amp.

Z-wreck is reported as based off a Rocket but only Dr Z and Ken F know for sure. One nice amp though.

[BTF]

I'm not up on post-60's country music or its musicians, so I had no idea what Paisley was playing other than the odd Vox. This fellow is a nice guy and called me about the Trainwreck (which I also knew little about). From the various schematics it appears that a Train would not be too formidable a project for him. Thanks to you all for your help.

I agree that the various schematics confuse rather than help those in search of information. Each seems to be someone's idea of what's inside the amp rather than what is actually inside the amp. The whole secrecy issues are what puts me off Dumbles and Trainwrecks, to be honest. I'm sure they are nice amps, though.

Thanks again, Bill.

[paulster]

The whole secrecy issues are what puts me off Dumbles and Trainwrecks, to be honest.

If you look at the Ron Worley schematics and layouts then you'll see there isn't any secrecy about Trainwrecks any more.

A lot of the early stuff was conjecture and information passed along by third parties, rather than first-hand documentation of real world amps.

That changed with Francesca, and opened the floodgates, so we've got properly documented Expresses, Liverpools and Rockets now.

If we could just get the Dirty Little Monster and Songwriter 30 then we'd have a complete set!

[Jackie Treehorn]

I really think we ought to delete the Blue Guitar schematics though because people always seem to think they are possibly correct, when we know now just how far out they are. Or at the very least annotate them as such.

Exclude those and the ones we have posted are correct for the particular amps they refer to, with their slight differences between them (e.g. half power switch on Ginger, different bright switch wiring on Francesca).

Hold on, now. If we delete all the variations, how will we answer the question, "Which schematic sounds the best?"

There are some good ideas in the blue guitar variations for where one can tweak the amp. It's great to learn how Ken did things, but the whole "accuracy" obsession strikes me as the antithesis of Ken's philosophy.

[M Fowler]

Have Ron or Allyn put in big bold letters the following TW Files are accurate for inaccurate info see below.

[paulster]

That would do. We get so many people asking about which are the correct schematics and layouts, and it isn't like these are Dumbles with loads of variations of correct ones. There are inherently correct ones and inherently incorrect ones, and there's clearly confusion between them.

[Jackie Treehorn]

Yes, rename them if it's confusing, but I don't think they should be deleted. We could have the inaccurate or variation nomenclature (incorrect kind of implies they plain don't work) for those older schematics and then we could have the accurate, cookie-cutter, play-it-safe, schematics, too!

Seriously, though, while we're on the subject of semantics, maybe the Kelly and Francesca schematics are the ones that should be renamed, "Verified Express Schematic: Kelly," etc. etc. The Blue Guitar schematics are clearly labeled several interpretations of the express.

Like, Richie says, there were small variations, and we really only have a small slice to make a determination that they represent the whole.