Layout!

Express, Liverpool, Rocket, Dirty Little Monster, etc.

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Jackie Treehorn
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Re: Layout!

Post by Jackie Treehorn »

Mark wrote:Dear Jackie

I'm glad the info I provided was able to help. I do have an "exact" layout for an Express/Liverpool amp. I have been meaning to forward it on to Omar, but work is getting the better of me at the moment.

Should you want a copy, just send me an email. there is also a layout of the Express style power supply floating around too. Once you see it you realise why no one copied it. The Komet layout is far better (looking.)

I'd also love to see the Two Rock transformer spec sheet and be able to compare the Heybour transformers with them. Then I think we'd have all of the puzzle. Though I wouldn't be surprised if no one heard any difference.

P.S. Jackie, I'd love to hear a clip of your amp.
Ah, work is always getting in the way of the more important things! I'm going to have to send you an email to check out this layout you've got! I'd like to think that I'm done, but hey, there's always more to try, I suppose.

You know, I think the Heyboers sound great. I'd really have to hear the details of how Two Rock derived their transformers to get fired up enough to think they held a significant piece of the puzzle. Did they literally take apart an express and send the transformers to their vendor :shock: ?

Clips! I've recorded a bunch of stuff with my band, but nothing since the latest revisions. I'm going to get to the studio some weekend soon and get some tracks, though! Unfortunately, I don't have any recording gear at home.
Jackie Treehorn
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Re: Layout!

Post by Jackie Treehorn »

Omar wrote:Jackie,
Thanks for the great info. Can't wait to try this on my T-wreck clone.

Btw, I know I've told you before, but your amp look fabulous!! :D

Omar
Omar, you're too kind. I think your wreck gets the fabulous prize, though. Nice clip on the other thread. Your plexi is wired impecibly, too!

I think you're gonna like this change when you try it...I'd love to hear your feedback (ha ha) on it, too!
Robert
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Re: Layout!

Post by Robert »

I did speak with Joe at Two Rock. He said they obtained a Trainwreck and reverse engineered it. They sent the transformers to the original manufacturer, I'm guessing Pacific, and had it copied. Some one posted on another forum, Ampage, that the transformers were built without permission from Ken and he was not pleased. Who knows the real story though.

Robert
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HeeBGB
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Re: Layout!

Post by HeeBGB »

Well I have had some contact with Ken. He stated in a letter to me that he does not mind one off copies that hombuilders make but he does not like when they are "for sale as such" meaning selling Express clones like Two Rock. He did not mention any companies by name though.

So I would say he is not pleased with them.

Greg
Jackie Treehorn
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Re: Layout!

Post by Jackie Treehorn »

Well, I realized that while I don't have any recording gear at home, I do have my little digital camera which can shoot a movie. Hence, I have indulged my inner scorsese this evening. While not the highest quality recording, I think you'll get the picture in terms of the feedback. This is with 6V6's and 4 clicks into the airbrake, so it wasn't that loud.

Wreck build episode one

It's a pretty big file, and slightly strange, so I'm not going to keep it up that long! In the meantime, let me know what you think.
Chris G
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Re: Layout!

Post by Chris G »

Jackie Treehorn wrote:Well, I realized that while I don't have any recording gear at home, I do have my little digital camera which can shoot a movie. Hence, I have indulged my inner scorsese this evening. While not the highest quality recording, I think you'll get the picture in terms of the feedback. This is with 6V6's and 4 clicks into the airbrake, so it wasn't that loud.

Wreck build episode one

It's a pretty big file, and slightly strange, so I'm not going to keep it up that long! In the meantime, let me know what you think.
Hi Jackie,
Thanks for shareing that!!! your amp sounds great.How bout one with some 34's in place of those 6v6's? :D

Thanks
chris
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Allynmey
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Re: Layout!

Post by Allynmey »

Jackie, I love the 4x12 in the video. I have a 1979 1960 A+B with G1265's
I'll enclose a pic or two.

Allynmey
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Omar
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Re: Layout!

Post by Omar »

Jackie,
Thanks for posting the mpg. That is totally wicked feedback you're getting!!! What guitar and pickups were you using? Is there any pedals or is this straight in?

My T-wreck clone is no where near that harmonically rich and the only way for me to get it to feedback like that would be at really high volume levels.

Omar

PS. I thought the titles in the mpg were fun. Can't wait for Episode II - Attack of the Clones. Where have I heard that one before? :? :D
Tone by misadventure
Chris G
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Re: Layout!

Post by Chris G »

Jackie Treehorn wrote:Well, I realized that while I don't have any recording gear at home, I do have my little digital camera which can shoot a movie. Hence, I have indulged my inner scorsese this evening. While not the highest quality recording, I think you'll get the picture in terms of the feedback. This is with 6V6's and 4 clicks into the airbrake, so it wasn't that loud.

Wreck build episode one

It's a pretty big file, and slightly strange, so I'm not going to keep it up that long! In the meantime, let me know what you think.
Hi Jackie,
Was I half asleep this morning or did you change this file by mid afternoon??
I watched this morning and there were words on the screen,at lunch no words and what I thought was a different jam goin on?
was sleepin or what?
Chris G
gnugear
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Re: Layout!

Post by gnugear »

That sounds insane ... like it's litereally going to blow up!! :)
Jackie Treehorn
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Location: New Orleans, LA

Re: Layout!

Post by Jackie Treehorn »

I had switched the files around yesterday with a take which had more conventional noodling. I felt the first movie with the titles might have been a bit over the top. I put it back, though. I think it's at least evidence of the results of the layout tweak. I never would have believed that moving wires could have such a profound effect.

Omar, my amp was the same way. In the band I'm in, we do a song that has a big jam at the end. At the exact same settings, 6V6's, 4 clicks into the airbrake, I would put the guitar right by the speaker cabinet and maybe get a little squeak. Now I almost have to concentrate to avoid the feedback artifacts.

No pedals or trick photography in the making of the movie. The guitar was my pointy headstock, "hair" guitar. It's a Guild solidbody (I got it for $50 at a flea market), ash body, set maple neck with ebony fingerboard, Gibson humbucker, and the full clamping, kahler super vibrato bridge, 20 feet of cable into the amp. The amp volume was around 2:30 o'clock - more gain than I usually use.

Allynmey, those are EXTREMELY nice cabinets! I've got a 1979 1960A with 65's that I leave for use at my band's rehearsal space. They're really polished sounding cabs, but mine is moderately thrashed and not nearly as nice as yours.

Chris, I'm going to do some more "serious" recording with EL34's I don't think the little camera could really capture the distinction!

Thanks for watching and commenting! You guys are great!
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hbamp
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Re: Layout!

Post by hbamp »

Hello Mark,

Can you email the layout to me please.

Sincerely,

Henk

hbamp@hccnet.nl
Dutch hand build amps
tubedogsmith
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Re: Layout!

Post by tubedogsmith »

Jackie, baddass clip, Man!!
Dai H.
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Re: Layout!

Post by Dai H. »

one thought: there could have been an oscillation that was making the sound worse which was solved by the higher impedance wiring. I might have done that but I personally don't have the ability to detect an oscillation like that (unless obvious) since the most sophisticated meter I've got is a DVM. Wiring a run so it is higher impedance might be useful to prevent oscillation though--which would be as aforementioned, plus doing things like putting series resistance earlier after the output, then using a shielded wire after that to raise the high. freq. impedance. Also goes for the location of a pot, and the location of shielded wiring being before or after. After raises the high freq. impedance even more as the pot is turned down and series R w/the signal increases and the R between the signal and ground decreases. Or all points in between w/practicality in mind of the pot location (usually you want it located where it's easier to access and with other controls). Whatever works and sounds best.
Mark
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Re: Layout!

Post by Mark »

Okay, I think I've sent a copy to everyone. I hope this picture helps all of you.

Regarding the wiring layout drawing, it looks (practically) exactly like the photo I have of the Funk built Liverpool amp.

Good luck to everyone with their clones.

Yours Sincerely

Mark Abbott
Yours Sincerely

Mark Abbott
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