Please --- Just one complete amp

[roknroll]

First I will apologize in advance if i am wrong, but I have spent months reading and reading and building, changing, trying, changing again after every post I read. I know I am not the only one. There does not seem to be even one complete amp on this board that some one has posted a complete "kit and kaboodle". What I mean by that is post a few sound clips along with a schematic. Not just any schematic. The complete schematic. No mistakes, no changes, no possible other values, no other variations, no updates, these transformers, these tubes, this layout, etc. This is the amp, this is what it sounds like, this is how i built it. Period. End of story. No questions. This is it. You like the clips, build it. You don't like the clips, move on to a different one.
This discussion group has grown so large that you can grow old reading all the really useful info as well as the nonesense. I realize that there are numerous people who have been nice enough to answer questions and share observations and information. And I humbly thank you for that.
If there was just one organized folder with each different build in it's own folder where one could go to listen to the clip, view and download the schematic and layout or photos for that particular amp, do you realize how many hundreds of thousands of man/woman hours would be saved and how much aggravation would be alleviated?

[Bob-I]

Sorry if you're dissapointed buddy. Dumble's are not "Kit and kaboodle" type amps, each one is unique. Even Robbin Ford and Larry Carlton are constantly taking their amps to Dumble a tweak and a twiddle. Plus, one man's tone is not always another man's tone.

So go to the files section and try to pick some completed amps. No I don't post clips with the schematic, but do a search, you'll find clips.

If I wanted something that was "period end of story" build a Fender or Marshall clone. Dumble's are for experimentation.

Also, we're just hobbyists, I'm happy to help but I can't spend time organizing my files. It may save you time, but if that's what you really need, go to Ceritone or Mojo and buy a kit. They make great amps and lots of fun to build. Our amps are for experimentation. Enjoy.

[keithrick]

Try putting your amp in a cab. Then it won't be so easy and tempting to try the latest tweaks .

One way we could cut down on the size of the forum.... limit the forum to 804 members, 1101 and counting is too big!!

Just kidding....

[roknroll]

Sorry if you're dissapointed buddy. Dumble's are not "Kit and kaboodle" type amps, each one is unique. Even Robbin Ford and Larry Carlton are constantly taking their amps to Dumble a tweak and a twiddle. Plus, one man's tone is not always another man's tone.

So go to the files section and try to pick some completed amps. No I don't post clips with the schematic, but do a search, you'll find clips.

If I wanted something that was "period end of story" build a Fender or Marshall clone. Dumble's are for experimentation.

Also, we're just hobbyists, I'm happy to help but I can't spend time organizing my files. It may save you time, but if that's what you really need, go to Ceritone or Mojo and buy a kit. They make great amps and lots of fun to build. Our amps are for experimentation. Enjoy.

I think that you missed my point. When an amp is finished and you are happy with your creation, that amp is a unique entity that posseses certain qualities that you and we might like and is reproduceable again. It makes no difference what amp it is. Any amp can be tweaked and twiddled for eternity. That amp that you are happy with is "done" and can then be "published" as a complete whole (kit and kaboodle). It exists. It is done. It sounds like this! Then it is up to every individual who listens to those clips to decide if it is their tone or not.
I wasn't coming down on the group. With all due respect I think you might reread what I wrote and try viewing it differently because from the "tone of your answer you may have thought I had some type of attitude problem which I do not. It is a suggestion for the future.

[Normster]

Being from California, I'll try to be a little more politically correct and sensitive than Bob was...but not by much.

Bob tells the truth. There is no "instant pudding" in the Dumble world unless you follow Andy Fuch's approach and go PCB. As we've all read and discovered, the Dumble circuit seems to be very sensitive to component values, build quality, layout, lead dress, and even input signal quality (e.g., great guitars sound far different from mediocre ones). Andy's approach allows him to achieve very high build consistency, but very few of us are PCB designers. (I built two "identical" Bassman ODS clones using the same boards, components, and layout and they both sound completely different.)

As for a final layout, if you use the hybrid-a with the first round of dogear's changes, you'll most likely end up with an acceptable Dumble-type sound. Much of the tweaking you're reading about is just a bunch of tone freak stuff that tweakers (like Dogears, Bob, me, et al) experiment with in pursuit of the "grail" tone.

BTW, the consistent tone issue is not unique to Dumble but extends to production amps (and guitars) as well. My friend Loren played several Fender SuperSonics and didn't care for them. Then he walked into a local music store, plugged into a floor model and bought it on the spot. (Didn't want a new boxed unit from the back.)

A final observation is that no two players will achieve the same tone even using the same gear. Another guitar player friend of mine was playing my Ibanez semi-hollow through my Dumble clone and getting fusion tone that had me drooling...but I can never get that tone myself.

[Bob-I]

I think that you missed my point.

LOL... no I think you missed my point. These amps are never "done". Check out my 3 channel schematic on the files page. It's solid and sounds great, but I've modified the reverb ckt since then. If it ever gets "done" it'll go up for sale.

Again, you want canned, get a canned kit, you want to experiment, hang around. We'll all experiment and have a great time. JMO

Normster also brings up a good point about production amps not all being alike. I had 3 Twin Reverbs in the 60's, 2 or which were the same vintage and each one had a voicing of it's own. One was even quite a bit less volume than the other 2, go figure.

[Bob-I]

Ok, in the spirit of sharing, here's one of my latest creations. I bought a dead Peavey VTX 65 off ebay for $40, gutted it and used the chassis, iron and tube sockets to build a 90's version Dumble.

http://www.patmedia.net/bob-ingram/DClo ... ematic.jpg
http://www.patmedia.net/bob-ingram/DClo ... Board4.jpg
http://www.patmedia.net/bob-ingram/DClone/Pic1.jpg
http://www.patmedia.net/bob-ingram/DClone/Pic2.jpg
http://www.patmedia.net/bob-ingram/DClone/Bob-I.mp3

Don't expect this treatment again.... and stay off my damn lawn!!

[skyboltone]

#758 Here.

It seems fitting somehow that this sort of topic would make my 100th. I'm at a time in my life where the tinkering's what its all about. I marvel at the production numbers of guys like BobI. I'm still gathering and noodleing ths thing and I haven't sniffed a whiff of rosen smoke yet.

To Rocknrolls credit he did apologize in advance. You're not so much wrong as just suffering from a set of needs not shared by the majority of the multi-post crowd here. I'm grateful that these guys are even worse at leaving stuff alone than I am.

It's been said maybe a hundred times here; build the Rev A to start. It will work. Then begin to sort the combined wisdom of the assembled into YOUR special amp. Ask anyone who has put together a succesful band (whatever that is) and it's about what Eric Clapton calls "working on the sound of the band". Boy I can't wait till somebody says I just want to sound like Dan Hall. Build me an amp. LOL! That'll be the day.

Anyway, don't take it to heart, run away, or slash you wrists or anything silly. Just start getting the parts together and jump in. Wait till you get your first jolt of 500! Once in the morning does it.

Dan

[roknroll]

Bob
Thanks for the post. That is all I was driving at. You assembled a cohesive group of things together - schematic, layout, pictures, sound clip ( which by the way was very cool). It literally says - this worked for me, here it is, in it's entirety, check it out. No one says that when completed it will sound anything like yours. But it's a solid starting place more so than beginning with hybrid A with an almost infinite number of suggestions in this group of where it can be improved. Someone in the future can now look at your post and say -hey, that's what I want and I'm going to build it.
Regards and again thanks for the post. And I'll try to stay off the grass!
Jack

[Luthierwnc]

A positive exercise would be to give a complete listing of exactly what you want to accomplish with a given build and then enlist some members (or lurkers) on a collaborative build like the original AX84. Include:

combo/head
speaker(s)
guitar(s)
tubes,
what you like
who you like
what you play
band, jam, home, recording
venue characteristics
pedals
sound reinforcement capabilities
portability
chassis and cabs
and a dozen other things

I'm sure you'll get a lot of advice and maybe a few takers on a simultaneous build project. Take pictures, take notes, post it on a site or a sticky here.

Over the last ten years I have probably built 40 amps from scratch and restored a dozen. It has taken that long to understand slightly more than half of what I ought to. Now I can start with a sound in my head and track it upstream through the schematic. For a lot of guys on this site, this is sort of the couture end of amp-hacking. The role model never made the same one twice and we have already made all the JTM45's we can play.

Skip

One of my best friends once told me, "I used to just obsess over my tone until I realized that 90% of the audience are drunks and chicks".

[keithrick]

Guy's, BTW- I was joking about the numbers, it was punishment enough sorting through the memberlist to figure that out!

Believe me, I need to get mine in a chassis, the wife thinks I am crazy. I have lost sleep, have solder burns on my hands and I am forgetting how to play guitar.

Bob - you are the man! Love the work and the clips. Are you the Bob that lives near Scott? Next time you get together with Scott, I would love to make the trip up to see you guys and hear these amps in person.

-to switch gears we do have a almost complete example from Gils photos. Has anyone tried to duplicate the amp in those pics? I am suprised nobody has done this yet

I have made a copy of TW Francesca and it is a banging amp.

[Bob-I]

Bob
Thanks for the post. That is all I was driving at. You assembled a cohesive group of things together - schematic, layout, pictures, sound clip ( which by the way was very cool). It literally says - this worked for me, here it is, in it's entirety, check it out. No one says that when completed it will sound anything like yours. But it's a solid starting place more so than beginning with hybrid A with an almost infinite number of suggestions in this group of where it can be improved. Someone in the future can now look at your post and say -hey, that's what I want and I'm going to build it.
Regards and again thanks for the post. And I'll try to stay off the grass!
Jack

Good luck. Start building and wipe your feet, you're tracking mud all over the place.

[smashguitars]

Ok, in the spirit of sharing, here's one of my latest creations. I bought a dead Peavey VTX 65 off ebay for $40, gutted it and used the chassis, iron and tube sockets to build a 90's version Dumble.

http://www.patmedia.net/bob-ingram/DClo ... ematic.jpg
http://www.patmedia.net/bob-ingram/DClo ... Board4.jpg
http://www.patmedia.net/bob-ingram/DClone/Pic1.jpg
http://www.patmedia.net/bob-ingram/DClone/Pic2.jpg
http://www.patmedia.net/bob-ingram/DClone/Bob-I.mp3

Don't expect this treatment again.... and stay off my damn lawn!!

Bob, i totally dig that tone. i think i was finally swayed to build a D type amp. What speakers did you use? and what are your B+ voltages? thanks.

[Bob-I]

Bob, i totally dig that tone. i think i was finally swayed to build a D type amp. What speakers did you use? and what are your B+ voltages? thanks.

I used a 2x12 open back with Celestion G12H80's. The B+ is undocumented so I don't know all of the voltages, but the most critical of the B+ is the preamp tube plates, they need to be as close to 200V as possible. The cathodes are typically about 1.8V.

[smashguitars]

200V for ALL pre plates?