Reverb placement

[Bob-I]

A friend of mine noted that his Bogner Shiva has the reverb placed earlier in the signal chain, before the OD, and has a much nicer sound when the amp is driven hard.

I've been thinking of trying this on a Dumble, but I'm not sure how to implement this. Any idea?

[glasman]

Maybe this is a starting point.

https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.php?t=407



Gary

[Bob-I]

Maybe this is a starting point.

https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.php?t=407



Gary

Um... yes... great starting point, but damn he put a lot of tubes in the reverb ckt.

It appears that there are 3. 1/2 12AX7 to drive the ckt, a parallel 12AT7 for the reverb driver, 1/2 12AX7 reverb return, then a 12AX7 used for mixing the dry and reverb signals. Seems like a bit of overkill. Very cool though.

Reading the Bogner manual it seems that they use a single tube reverb, but there's really no explaination of the send and mixer stages.

[glasman]

There was a lot of talk about reverb placement a few years ago in some text files I found at blueguitar.org.

Most concluded that placing just before the PI was probably the cleanest way to maintain the tone of the amp.

One thing you could try is to take the signal from the first gain control wiper and feed it to the single tube reverb circuit., then mix the signal back at the grid of CL2 using a 220K to 1M resistor.

If you need more gain, adjust the cathode resistor of the driver section and the Plate / Cathode values for the recovery stage. Take into consideration that the additional loading of the reverb recovery and drive circuits is going to change the tone somewhat.

Gary

[Bob-I]

There was a lot of talk about reverb placement a few years ago in some text files I found at blueguitar.org.

Most concluded that placing just before the PI was probably the cleanest way to maintain the tone of the amp.

I can see that. Bogner has a true bypass reverb. There's a noticable tone degredation when the reverb is engaged.

One thing you could try is to take the signal from the first gain control wiper and feed it to the single tube reverb circuit., then mix the signal back at the grid of CL2 using a 220K to 1M resistor.

If you need more gain, adjust the cathode resistor of the driver section and the Plate / Cathode values for the recovery stage. Take into consideration that the additional loading of the reverb recovery and drive circuits is going to change the tone somewhat.

Gary

Thx.

[glasman]

[I can see that. Bogner has a true bypass reverb. There's a noticable tone degredation when the reverb is engaged.

Degrading in the Bogner?

Gary

[dogears]

Placing reverb anywhere but after all preamp distortion sounds like total shit to me. I won't be convinced otherwise. That goes for delay as well. Any time based effect must not be distorted, IMHO.

[Zippy]

I didn't get your intent, D'. You write that time-based effects should be clean but that first line seems to imply just the opposite.

Are you saying that you prefer clean 'verb in parallel to the preamp (ie. tapped from the first stage and mixed back in after distortion is added in other stages) or that you advocate reverb tapped/mixed just before the PI?

Thanks.

[dogears]

My meaning is that the actual delay or reverb should not get distorted. It sounds great to have distorted signal fed to it. Imagine and OD pedal and a reverb pedal. Would you put the reverb before the OD?

Reverb and delay are natural room simulations. Ideally, you'd want to mic your speaker and use a mixer to add reverb/delay to your post speaker tone! Mike Landau and Larry Carlton do this

I didn't get your intent, D'. You write that time-based effects should be clean but that first line seems to imply just the opposite.

Are you saying that you prefer clean 'verb in parallel to the preamp (ie. tapped from the first stage and mixed back in after distortion is added in other stages) or that you advocate reverb tapped/mixed just before the PI?

Thanks.

[Bob-I]

Placing reverb anywhere but after all preamp distortion sounds like total shit to me. I won't be convinced otherwise. That goes for delay as well. Any time based effect must not be distorted, IMHO.

Interesting. I find the Bogner reverb to be just superb and if I understand it correctly, it's pre-OD. I've been looking for more information but it's just not available.

I will say that Gary's reverb schem sounds pretty damn good, subtle and smooth, just how I like it.

[Zippy]

My meaning is that the actual delay or reverb should not get distorted. It sounds great to have distorted signal fed to it. Imagine and OD pedal and a reverb pedal. Would you put the reverb before the OD?

Got it. Thanks.

I've seen reverb implemented both ways in modern designs. I s'pose it's up to either the artist (or engineer or producer) to determine what works. And that, in turn, would depend on how much OD one uses.

I agree that the post-speaker reverb is the most natural if you are trying to replicate (and control) the sound of playing into a large space. I used to place non-reverb Fender browns and tweeds in a long hallway adjacent to the studio and place mics both close and far to obtain "reverb". This OD-world is new to me. Thanks again.