oooooooo

[heisthl]

Sometimes I wish you guys (Brandon and Henry) would accidently reveal your secrets - or at least plainly point in the direction to look. For example... you don't have to say the mid cap has to exactly .013 on the skyline EQ, but maybe just to say to play with that cap and whatever else is essential; or say that it's 'all' in the iron etc.

I have no secrets - I paste the actual schematic with voltages on the inside of the cabinet of every amp I sell.

[butwhatif]

Ok,
these two plots are the difference between a .01uf and .05uf mid cap.

The Mid control is at zero for both plots.

The green trace is the .05uf cap and the red trace is the .01uf.

You can see how the .01uf shifts the mid frequencies higher by about 400Hz and also about a 12db change in amplitude.

The mid pot on the skyliner does one thing... varies the RC time constant set up by the mid cap( like a guitars tone pot ) ..The larger the cap the wider the mid range band being shunted .. ... Since the mid pot is isolated from the rest of the stack there is less interaction unlike a Fender stack whereby lifting the mids there effects both treble and bass frequencys... Basicially lifting the whole stack Skyliner doesn't do this..This is one of the reasons the Skyline does't have quite the gain as the Fender...If you go to the Fender calculator increase the mid control and see how it effects all frequencys..The Fender tone stack calculation really applies mostly to the Bluesmaster..Tweaking tonestacks is a perception in that if you scoop the mids now your going to hear a more pronounced low end and top end ...For me if the amp sounds a little midrangy sitting on my bench it's usually perfect when I put it in a band setting...You'll find it easier to play and hear yourself better..Especially w/ a horn section or a loud keyboard..Bring on the 01

Tony

Agreed, it does that, -I never had a problem getting hi's and mids. consider this--if the amp is set up more open on the low end, it can easily have more bass and low mid than needed. Enough to swamp the tone, no? But by having a bass control that can deliver bass, and a mid control that can deliver lo mid, then it is possible to get better balance with the overabundance of treble that is there. Especially with HB pu's that aren't overwound. I think that one of the greatest attributes of these amps is that the low mid that turns everyone on allows a guitar player to 'fly under the radar' of the hi end bouncing around on shit sound stages. You can actually play quieter than trying to surf over the top of everything and still be heard, and hear yourself, w/o blowing the top of everyone's head off. Having an .01 mid cap hasn't done that right for me yet. It seems like the bass control can't do all the bottom and lo mid by itself. U can't turn up bass w/o lo mid and or lo mid w/o turning up bass.

[heisthl]

No reason you can't expand the skyliner layout to include hi-mid (.002) mid(.01) lo mid (.047) and Bass (.1 or larger).

[butwhatif]

No reason you can't expand the skyliner layout to include hi-mid (.002) mid(.01) lo mid (.047) and Bass (.1 or larger).

Too bad there isnt a more readily avail concentric lo profile gang pot so that this kinda stuff could be implemented easily. All i'm tryin to say is there's more ways to do it than just what the schems show.

[talbany]

Agreed, it does that, -I never had a problem getting hi's and mids. consider this--if the amp is set up more open on the low end, it can easily have more bass and low mid than needed. Enough to swamp the tone, no?

Pretty Subjective comment..

But by having a bass control that can deliver bass, and a mid control that can deliver lo mid, then it is possible to get better balance with the overabundance of treble that is there

To me that kind of depends on what your definition of low mids are..which is where I think you and Henry disagree!!

Especially with HB pu's that aren't overwound. I think that one of the greatest attributes of these amps is that the low mid that turns everyone on allows a guitar player to 'fly under the radar' of the hi end bouncing around on shit sound stages.

Once again kinda subjective comment...
For me personally I think the .01 works great with most rooms and most guitars as I usually have enough range to keep that in check...However I would agree the .002 used as the treble cap can get a little rough on ears especially with singles..

You can actually play quieter than trying to surf over the top of everything and still be heard, and hear yourself, w/o blowing the top of everyone's head off. Having an .01 mid cap hasn't done that right for me yet.

I don't get that... I do agree you have play with more control and dynamics... Be aware..

It seems like the bass control can't do all the bottom and lo mid by itself. U can't turn up bass w/o lo mid and or lo mid w/o turning up bass.

I kinda get this or enough of this when I flip to the Jazz Setting..

I think much of this totally subjective...and mis read termanology... If you like a .047 mid cap use it..No right or wrong.. I like the .047's in my 100k plate amps w/ Strat on occasion
because someone here recommends it or Dumble used it doesn't make it right in your ears....

[talbany]

Not to change the subject

Henry...While your here.....Here is some info on phaseing issues you brought up on the polarity post a while back..Thought you might be intrested as your right it effects acoustic phaseing...



At relatively short distances from the amp, positive polarity will tend to cause feedback at the second harmonic (an octave above the fundamental) of low-to-middle register notes. This is because you're roughly half a wavelength away. The open A string is 110 Hz. This frequency has a wavelength in air of just over 10 feet, which adds a delay-induced phase shift of 180 degrees to the signal, if the guitar is located about 5 feet from the amp. Lower notes will do this at greater distances, higher notes at shorter ones. The tendency of an in-polarity system will be to cancel this frequency, because the signal is 180 degrees out of phase when the sound reaches the guitar. At twice that frequency - 220 Hz - the delay-induced phase shift is 360 degrees, which places the signal from the amp in phase with the amp's input when the sound strikes the guitar. Ergo, you'll get feedback at the second harmonic, and cancellation at the fundamental. If you invert the system polarity in this scenario, you add 180 degrees (at all frequencies) from the polarity inversion to the 180 degrees (at 110 Hz) due to "time of flight," and you then get positive feedback at the fundamental.

Obviously there are complicating factors. The interaction of the guitar's structure with the pressure wave from the speaker will have an effect. Reversing polarity will shift the lowest feedback frequency by an octave.

Back to mid caps..

Tony

[j-po]

I have no secrets - I paste the actual schematic with voltages on the inside of the cabinet of every amp I sell.

No secrets? Does that mean you don't mind if someone posts your schematics on this site?

[heisthl]

No secrets? Does that mean you don't mind if someone posts your schematics on this site?

Let's see - here it is - list of names to never sell an amp to - new entry - j-po

When someone buys an amp It's theirs and they can do whatever they want with it - Of course conversely I can do whatever I want when it comes to supporting them afterward.


Seriously - I think my customer's are too loyal to do that but I have no control over what they do. Besides it's not rocket science it's just a tube amp. The build quality/layout/component choice has a lot more to do with the tone than a schematic can reveal. So go ahead and get one and post away, of course on yours I'll substitute a Ceriatone schematic.

[j-po]

Just toying with your "no secrets" statement.

[tubedogsmith]

I have no secrets - I paste the actual schematic with voltages on the inside of the cabinet of every amp I sell.

No secrets? Does that mean you don't mind if someone posts your schematics on this site?

Do a search of "heisthl" I doubt anyone has posted more of his own schems than him.

[Tag]

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[BobW]

No secrets? Does that mean you don't mind if someone posts your schematics on this site?

Let's see - here it is - list of names to never sell an amp to - new entry - j-po

When someone buys an amp It's theirs and they can do whatever they want with it - Of course conversely I can do whatever I want when it comes to supporting them afterward.


Seriously - I think my customer's are too loyal to do that but I have no control over what they do. Besides it's not rocket science it's just a tube amp. The build quality/layout/component choice has a lot more to do with the tone than a schematic can reveal. So go ahead and get one and post away, of course on yours I'll substitute a Ceriatone schematic.

What a great reply, Henry.

[bluesfendermanblues]

No secrets? Does that mean you don't mind if someone posts your schematics on this site?

Let's see - here it is - list of names to never sell an amp to - new entry - j-po

When someone buys an amp It's theirs and they can do whatever they want with it - Of course conversely I can do whatever I want when it comes to supporting them afterward.


Seriously - I think my customer's are too loyal to do that but I have no control over what they do. Besides it's not rocket science it's just a tube amp. The build quality/layout/component choice has a lot more to do with the tone than a schematic can reveal. So go ahead and get one and post away, of course on yours I'll substitute a Ceriatone schematic.

Great humor and wit

[Tonegeek]

nothing fat about using a .047 and there is not really enough lower bass when you use the .047 unless you make the slope resistor smaller.

My feeling exactly. My Skyline HRM had a mid switch for going between .01 and .047. It became apparent pretty quick that the low bass was suffering when the .047 was in circuit. The .047 does scoop more when you turn the pot and this gives one a sense that there is more variability than you get with the .01. To me whats more important though is the frequency acted on when you turn the pot and the .01 wins hands down for my tastes. Don't mess with my low bass! I built a similar amp for a pro player friend of mine and got the same response after we tried both mid values.

[Tag]

llll