Twin > non-HRM conversion- now with a clip and pic

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Tonegeek
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Re: Twin > non-HRM conversion- now with a clip and pic

Post by Tonegeek »

Bob-I wrote:
Tonegeek wrote: I still have some tweaking to do because the amp sounds a lot different cranked up than it does at low volume like when this clip was made. It gets brighter as I crank it up. If it did not get brighter, I would throw a bright cap on the master to make t a bit more crisp.
Well first off, my impression is that this is the reason for the bright cap, adding brightness at lower volumes to offset the lack of brightness at low volumes.
Agreed. I just never had much luck with them. I can still hear them even when the pot is turned up (unless it is all the way up). I will give it another go anyway because each amp being different, this one may respond to a bright cap where my previous ones haven't.
Bob-I wrote: Second try bringing the master volume up to about 11:00 and dropping the overall volume with the D-ulator return. It will get the master volume up to a level where it won't rob highs as much.
I spent some time today working with the amp at rehearsal volume and made several observations leading to some changes. I actually did have the master at about 11 oclock and the return at 12 and the send at 1. What I mostly observed today was how much the V1,V2 voltage and brand make difference. Contrary to something I said above in this thread, the lower plate v seems to be brighter. It is mushier. Earlier I think I misinterpreted the stiffer sound of higher voltage as being brighter when really it is not, just louder and holds up better when pushed. After much tube swapping and voltage changes I have decided a higher voltage is more useable for me. The main thing that convinced me was that with nothing but OD on, humbuckers (or at least the buckers in my Hamer) just do not sound right with too low a voltage. They have this upper mid dissonant ringing. Once I got the voltage above 190 on V1, the ringing stopped and the mid tones dropped in place. The double stop thing was not an issue anymore either. I now have the voltage in a range so that the circuit tolerates different tube types. I set mine using the FET sim resistor so that EH, JJ, GT and a Sovtek 12ax7wa that I have will all work without dropping the voltage too low. As an aside, I have never liked Sovtek 12ax7wa tubes, but I have a Fender branded one and with the right voltage and supporting circuitry, it sounds good.

The other tweak I went back and forth on was the V2a coupler. I finally decided I like 20n over the #124 value. This is what I put in my last non-HRM build and again in this one. I also dropped back to the 270p snubber in V2b, but I lowered the treble bleed a tad too. I need to post a clip but may not have a chance today to make one. that's all for now...
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Bob-I
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Re: Twin > non-HRM conversion- now with a clip and pic

Post by Bob-I »

Tonegeek wrote:
dlator has ~241 or so on the follower plate and 215 on the recovery plate. I am coming off the screen node to 56k dropper for the recovery and on to a 75k dropper for the follower. Might try 47k in place of the 56k dropper.
Another thing that I've noticed has a huge effect on the tone is the effects processor that you put in the loop. If the effects do A-D on the entire signal, not just the effect, it can make the overall tone brittle and digital in nature.

What I did to beat that, since I don't have a ton of cash around for effects processors, is I use a small mixer to mix dry and effected signals thereby avoiding converting the dry signal. You have to run the effect at 100% wet, no dry at all for this to work.

I posted this connection here...

https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.php?t=12528

But since this post I added 2 more effect outputs to the D-ulator so it's not hooked up like this...
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massygt6
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Re: Twin > non-HRM conversion- now with a clip and pic

Post by massygt6 »

great sound man, very "johnson-esque"! I really like it!
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Tonegeek
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Re: Twin > non-HRM conversion- now with a clip and pic

Post by Tonegeek »

Bob-I wrote: Another thing that I've noticed has a huge effect on the tone is the effects processor that you put in the loop. If the effects do A-D on the entire signal, not just the effect, it can make the overall tone brittle and digital in nature.
True. I can hear those A/D - D/A artifacts in my current setup. Before I converted this Twin, I was using it as my FX amp so I did not have that problem. My BM was getting purely the clean, tubes only signal and I pulled the fx off the send with no return. (my dulator is built in and is always in the circuit). I can't wait to get back to that setup! Since I now have a BM and non-HRM under one roof, this motivates me to get another cab built so I can run one clone as the main amp and the other as my FX amp. Or - I may try the mixer setup. I can experiment using my band's pa mixer before I go spend money on one.

Tweak update: nothing much new here. I swapped V1 from the Sovtek wa to the familiar EH and like it slightly better. It seems to be a little bit beefier. Still back and forth on the 22p master bright cap. It gets fizzy when you get the gain up where I like it for some lead work. At lower gain levels and when you need a bit more chime, it is good though. Tough call for me. Guess I could work the return volume as the master then I could overcome the cap by turning the real master up if I need to as was suggested.
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Re: Twin > non-HRM conversion- now with a clip and pic

Post by Tonegeek »

Got my cab today so here it is in the cab. I am loving this non-HRM thing. One thing I notice on this amp is the note definition/separation. I am guessing that is due to it being a 100 watter, or maybe because it is a 6L6 amp. It is different from the EL-34 HRM for sure. I am liking it a lot and can't wait to gig with it. I should post another clip. I ended up changing a bunch of stuff since the last post. Its got a 15p master bright cap, 270 X2 snubbers and no FET simulator (218 volts on the first tube). Its just what sounds the best with this build.
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bolomule
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Re: Twin > non-HRM conversion- now with a clip and pic

Post by bolomule »

Sounds great! I like the harmonics and the throaty attack. Is this a steel chassis then? Notice any difference in tone or noise level as opposed to an aluminum chassis? The reason I ask is I might just get a mojotone Twin chassis for a build. Also, where did you get the faceplate from? Thanks.
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ChrisM
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Re: Twin > non-HRM conversion- now with a clip and pic

Post by ChrisM »

That's a great conversion, looks great.
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Tonegeek
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Re: Twin > non-HRM conversion- now with a clip and pic

Post by Tonegeek »

bolomule wrote:Sounds great! I like the harmonics and the throaty attack. Is this a steel chassis then? Notice any difference in tone or noise level as opposed to an aluminum chassis? The reason I ask is I might just get a mojotone Twin chassis for a build. Also, where did you get the faceplate from? Thanks.
The clips are outdated but the amp still has a similar character and is a little more versatile now in terms of going between fatness and clarity. Its a real battle to get an amp to sound good at home alone, and still cut though with the band on a gig. Lately I have been getting my 11 year old son to come play bass or bang on the drums while I tweak an amp. This is a crude but effective way to simulate playing with the band. It makes a huge difference when your ear is hearing competing sounds.

It is the original Twin steel chassis. There are threads on AG (especially on the Trainwreck forum) comparing the differences between aluminum and steel. All I can say is the noise floor on this amp is very low. When I crank it up I hear hiss before it ever gets to any line noise. The hiss shows up at a ridiculously high level. I cannot comment on the difference in tone. My guess is the chassis material has minimal affect on tone.

Fedex Kinkos did the plates from a Corel drawing (I think I actually provided a .jpg type file). I had them printed on sticky vinyl then laminated on the front side with a matte laminate. Cost about $27 or so. If you got that way, just get a quote and arrange it so that you use all the material (or as much as possible) that you are quoted for. I had material left over from a minimum order so i printed a couple of extra foot pedal labels. Thanks go to Henry (Redplate amps) for that tip!
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