Drive Questions

['67_Plexi]

Can someone help me out and describe the drive and tonal differences between the non-HRM and the HRM drive circuits.
Could you compare the amount of available gain and the flavour of gain, using commercially available amps as bechmarks.

I know what they sound like to some degree from Ford recordings etc , but I've never played through one.

Sorry for the dumb questions, but I guessed you guys could help better than anyone.

Cheers, Alan.

[mlp-mx6]

My short answer is that the HRM adds a mid-scoop to the tone - configurable, of course - because that is what a FMV (Fender/Marshall/Vox) tone stack cannot help but do. There ends up being the sense of a little more "hair" on the high-end of the distortion, and the mids are not as prominent/full. Some would say that the HRM tone cuts through a little more.

I'm not up enough on "current tones" to cite reference amps for you. Frankly, IMHO nothing sounds like an ODS or I would have built something else anyway! The ODS tone is the tone I want most. And I'm close... (warning - for some folks the tweaking never ends!)

['67_Plexi]

Thanks for the comments. So would you class a HRM as a high medium or low gain OD circuit ?

Looking at it, it appears to a medium gain circuit, but I've been deceived before. A Bedrock 600 uses three preamp tubes and produces a ridiculous amount of harmonically rich overdrive, much more than anything else I've heard without cascading stages.

Again sorry for the fundamentally ill-informed questions, but if you don't ask, you don't learn

[dogears]

The HRM is a medium gain circuit IMO. The pre-OD network with its voltage divider and pre-emphasis circuit makes the HRM have less total gain on tap than the non HRM models, yet you still get good amounts of gain since the HRM is designed to be run with the front tonestack bypassed. Give up gain in one place but get it back in another......

For me and my bluesy fusion and jazz wankage, the HRM and/or non HRM provide all the gain I could ever need. On the other hand, I suppose the "bumble bee buzz" crowd might want more...... I think that crap sounds horrible so let them have their Krank amps and their Triple Rectos....

One other comment about the HRM... The front end has much more bass content hitting the OD than the non HRM. The filtering effect of the HRM leaves artifacts and complexities that are not available in the non HRM. I love it.... Adds character. The OD has a cleanliness to it yet is thick and rich! I have never heard another amp do it. Check out this sample of HRM in action.

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/ftp/DumbleTone.mp3

[mlp-mx6]

+1 to everything Scott said, except that I'm still tweaking my HRM. I'm VERY pleased with my non-HRM tone right now, and I hope I can have both...

Regarding the amount of gain - in the ODS you have 4 gain stages, so the amount of gain theoretically available is FAR more than you would EVER need for ANY level of distortion. We intentionally throw away a lot of the gain for the purpose of tone shaping and response shaping. Also - even at what folks would describe as a mid-gain sound, I am able to get "edge of feedback" to "full-on feedback" tones that are SO much fun to play and play with - and this is not with a feedback-prone guitar. You play this amp every bit as much as you play your guitar.

Build one.

[glasman]

++++1111 to Dogears and MLP-MX6.

It adds the Hair to the "Dog".....

Gary

['67_Plexi]

Thank you guys, it was as I suspected. I'm with you on the triple recs and all that can of bees tone, it's awful.

Here's a funny little fact a few of you guys may find interesting. About 10 years ago I sold a Fender Esprit that was serial number 000001. Rumour had it that it originally belonged to Robben Ford. I could never verify that, but Fender did verify that i was the first one off the production line, but couldn't say if it was given to Robben. For those who don't know, the Espirit was what was to become the Robben Ford signature model. They were made for about a year or so starting in 1984. I still own and use a Fender Flame, which was the same as the Esprit, just a tiny bit smaller body. They both belonged to the 'Master' series.

[pedro]

Scott - I love the feel and tone on that clip - can I get the whole piece to listen to ?

cheers
Pedro.

[toneman]

Say 67-plexi I thought I was the only one left who has a Fender Flame, no one around here has one or even seen one.

['67_Plexi]

Yeah I've had mine since 1984 ! They are very very underated guitars. Playability and finish is comparable to my PRS Custon 22 10 top.
I did replace the pickups with SD Pearly Gates.

[toneman]

Same here for the year, Pearly Gates for the bridge and SD 59 for the neck. Seems the 59 pickup is muddy at the same amp setting.(not ballanced with the the PG).Going to switch the PG with the SH JB this weekend. The 59 sounds great with the amp set to it as the PG but at differant settings. I have an SRV that I had put away and the urge is strong to play it through this D clone but I want to get away from that style. Don,t get me wrong I love that style but the amp makes you strive for higher ground in your own style.Kudos to the guys here who can play like RF,LC, Dogears,Gil and so on. Man I,d love to play like that.The Flame Elite and D clone makes me want to play again.GREAT clips on Gil's site. Sorry for the rambling

[roknroll]

Being new here I'm still learning the jargon. What is HRM ?
Thanks

[toneman]

Hot Rod Monkey= second tone stack mod