So I want to make a 5E3....where should I get a kit?

[leaveitalone84]

Hey Everyone!

So I've gotten bitten by the bug again, I love my express build and it rocks. But...I want another color on my palette and something shall we say..quieter?

I think the 5E3 is for me, so I've found the Weber kits, which look pretty great (but are they?). I was thinking of subbing in better transformers, Malloys and Orange Drop 715's, metal films, mil spec pots. How are the Weber cabinets and chassis? Do they hold up?

I've been looking at one of their Tore-Verb units as well.

I haven't had any experience or know of any other kit places for the 5E3. I know Ceriatone makes them but the chassis isn't like the original (chrome with white screenprint).

What is this business of Hoffman layouts which sound quieter? I know you should isolate the input jacks, use shielded wire for the inputs.

Thanks in advance!

[dobbhill]

http://www.missionamps.com/5E3kit.shtml

No affiliation.
D

[dartanion]

Seth,

Talk to Bruce Collins at Mission amps. Top quality stuff and Bruce is a super guy. Very helpful and knowledgeable.

Hoffman's stuff is very nice too, and another helpful guy.

The 5E3 was far from a Mil-Spec unit, so there is no need to build it that way. You can if you want to though.

[leaveitalone84]

God this forum rocks!

Thanks for the heads up Dart.

720+ shipping for everything wow! I might as well add the MM OT transformer, Sprague atom, and NOS 12AY7 upgrades!

Yeah I know its not mil spec....but I play at blues bars 3-4 nights a week and I need something bullet proof for sure. I would think the 2 watter pots and metal films would quiet down any extra noise as it did in my express.

[dartanion]

Seth,

The 5E3 is a whole different beast than an Express. The 5E3 has very little gain in the preamp even with the channels jumpered (paralleled triodes), and the concertina is a net zero gain affair. The distortion comes from the squishy power supply and the power tubes. Any noise issue in these is usually filament related or noisy tubes.

As for bullet proof, there are tons of tweed era amps out there still going strong after 50+ years of use, so I wouldn't worry too much about using the Mil-Spec parts on one. The normal places for these old amps to fail is electrolytic caps going bad and the phenolic board absorbing water and becoming conductive.

FYI - Get an NOS 5Y3 for it or it won't sound right.

[Richie]

You can't hardly mention 5E3,without including Bruce Collins. I think they still have a forum for the kits too.

[CaseyJones]

My $.02...

The "W" guy is sensitive about comments about his products. Too bad, IMHO the quality of the "W" 5E3 chassis has gone downhill. The latest one I ordered has very poor chrome, it looks like the chassis was prepped with a belt sander then left unpolished between plating processes. For those who don't know "triple chrome" means first polish the chassis. Plate the chassis with copper. Polish the copper. Plate the chassis with nickel. Polish the nickel. Then chrome it. Get it right and it looks great. That's the plater's fault except...

My last "W" chassis has an odd smaller than usual typeface on the control panel lettering. Early units had an integral grounding stud near the PT, that's gone the way of the buffalo.


The Mojo chassis is much better but... they punch it out to 30mm for the octals, that fits current issue Belton sockets perfectly. That leaves a big gap around my expensive NOS Cinch octals. I wish it was standard 1 1/8", I have a 30mm punch if I need it. Like early "W" Mojo doesn't punch circuit board mounting locations on either the board or the chassis.


Mission: The original and still the best as far as complete kits go. It's detailed more like a high end amp and less like an old Fender inside. Looks just like an old Fender from the outside.


I use Allen-Bradley carbon comps everywhere except in the power supply. I use Sprague 715Ps or 716Ps depending on my mood everywhere except for the tone control. I use Weber iron because there's no resale value in these amps. I shield most of the signal path because that makes the amp absolutely silent, that comes in handy in the studio.

[echuta13]

I ordered a Mission kit, and I can wholeheartedly recommend it. The parts quality is good, chassis is exceptional, and the cabinet is great!

[leaveitalone84]

Casey,

Words of wisdom like always!

Dart,

Thanks for the heads up, I just assumed the lower noise parts would help but if not. Then cool! I'll just have to be extra careful on the heater wiring.

This thing looks real simple. I could get it together in a night.

[dartanion]

Seth,

It is a pretty simple build and should go together quickly, especially with Bruce's kit.

[Alexo]

Have fun with it!

IMO, the 5E3 is all about being dirty, dirty, dirty... I used carbon comp's and old paper in oil cap's from Angela Instruments. I think if you want to be true to the original, you want grungy old parts to a certain extent, and the more they age and drift, the more 5E3-ish it may become.

It's also one of the few amps for which MM transformers are really pretty affordable, as are NOS 6V6's and 5Y3's. Even an NOS RCA 12AY7 is like 30 bucks. It all adds up, sure, but imagine building an original spec. JTM45 with GEC's, Mullards and Mustard caps, (and 400 bucks on MM's!) the 5E3 is so much more feasible to build to original specs.

I know a lot of folks like orange drops in Fenders, but I think they're a little better for "clean" Fenders, and the 5E3 is so growly that I've always thought Sozo's could be really cool in one.

Just some food for thought...

P.S., you may find a 300 ohm cathode resistor, as opposed to the stock 250, might keep your tubes in a happier state.

[dartanion]

You may also need to use the zener trick on the PT HT CT to get the voltages into vintage range. I believe Bruce includes that with the kit.

[Lonely Raven]

I asked this same question in a couple of other forums and got just about all the same responses.

I've got saved up to get mine from Mission though, all my money has been going into the new house.

[leaveitalone84]

Well, I guess it's the way to go!

1 more question.

Should I upgrade from a ceramic to alnico Jensen 12?

[CaseyJones]

IMO, the 5E3 is all about being dirty, dirty, dirty... I used carbon comp's and old paper in oil cap's from Angela Instruments. I think if you want to be true to the original, you want grungy old parts to a certain extent, and the more they age and drift, the more 5E3-ish it may become.

There's actually a beautiful warm cuddly clean available. Turn the amp volume up, turn your guitar volume down. Remember... these things were designed ten years before distortion became popular. A loud distorted amp wasn't cool in the '50s.

You may also need to use the zener trick on the PT HT CT to get the voltages into vintage range. I believe Bruce includes that with the kit.

The low buck Weber PT provides the correct voltages. MM wants you to upgrade to their "Fat stack, lowest B+" to achieve vintage correct voltages.

The Weber PT has enough juice for 6L6s or 5881s.