Project for a First Build (Did search, but I may be stupid)

[LedZepp007]

Hi all,

First post. Guarantee you have heard this many times (tried to search, but to no avail), but I am a newbie at amp building and electronics in general. I've read up on electrical concepts and tube amp design and have learned a little. I have soldered a couple of things in the past. I am a social scientist and that's where any intelligence I have lies, so I may be a poor DIYer.

At any rate, this forum seems to be the awesome. I can't believe that you guys have a build guide, layout, BOM, etc.

Do you think it's possible for a newb like yours truly to build a TW Express from scratch if I take my time and utilize the resources on this site? Given the BOM, I should be able to source the materials myself.

I really appreciate it!

[xtian]

Welcome!

Highly recommended for first builds is something with lower gain, like a Fender Champ or Tweed Princeton. The Express isn't a whole lot more complex in terms of number of components and connections, but it's a finicky beast, and requires some finesse in technique to get a successful build.

Still, if you're willing to take your time, read a LOT, and learn from failure, it's quite possible you'll be successful.

[LedZepp007]

Welcome!

Highly recommended for first builds is something with lower gain, like a Fender Champ or Tweed Princeton. The Express isn't a whole lot more complex in terms of number of components and connections, but it's a finicky beast, and requires some finesse in technique to get a successful build.

Still, if you're willing to take your time, read a LOT, and learn from failure, it's quite possible you'll be successful.

Excellent. That's good to know. I suppose my desire to build something that may be a little more complex than some beginner projects is motivated primarily by cost. I'm saving money for my wedding and just moved to an area that has high rent. I could build a Champ or a 5E3 (which I both love, BTW, especially the 5E3), but -- if I am going to build amps -- I'd love for the first to be truly special. That I can give to one of my future kids. ("Hey thanks, dad, but I like hard rock and that amp looks like it's an old person amp..." [plugs in] "Holy shit!")

I love the sound of 18-watt Marshalls and consider them to be (along with the 5E3) the best of the classic rock tones. However, I think the Trainwreck is the all time greatest rock guitar amp circuit and should be the standard by which other rock amps are judged. It would be an unbelievable experience to build one.

[xtian]

I certainly understand your desire, to pass along something that's awesome to your kids. I had a similar goal in mind when I started--if you're going to build it, do it right, bulletproof, awesome, last forever.

However, I've been building for five years, maybe thirty builds, and am just now getting into the zone. My early amps worked, but weren't great. I've revisited a few and fixed them up. Others are out there in the wild with my blemishes showing!

Anyway, don't fool yourself that your first amp will be heirloom quality. Maybe it will! Just don't count on it.

[LedZepp007]

I certainly understand your desire, to pass along something that's awesome to your kids. I had a similar goal in mind when I started--if you're going to build it, do it right, bulletproof, awesome, last forever.

However, I've been building for five years, maybe thirty builds, and am just now getting into the zone. My early amps worked, but weren't great. I've revisited a few and fixed them up. Others are out there in the wild with my blemishes showing!

Anyway, don't fool yourself that your first amp will be heirloom quality. Maybe it will! Just don't count on it.

Again, thanks for the help. I was looking at RJ Guitar's stuff earlier. I suppose I could build one of his cheap Champ kits to see if I can do it.

I wonder if his PCB version of the TW would be an easier/more appropriate build for me?

[vibratoking]

I love the sound of 18-watt Marshalls and consider them to be (along with the 5E3) the best of the classic rock tones. However, I think the Trainwreck is the all time greatest rock guitar amp circuit and should be the standard by which other rock amps are judged. It would be an unbelievable experience to build one.

That is quite a bit of opinion. The 18 watt is not my favorite...at all. I love a 5E3. Painting the TW as the all-time greatest rock amp is going way out on a limb. The standard by which others should be judged...not in my book. I could start naming amps, but that would be more opinion. Putting the opinion aside, your comments make me wonder if you know what you think you are building. It seems that you should do a lot more homework based on what you say you are after.

[LedZepp007]

I love the sound of 18-watt Marshalls and consider them to be (along with the 5E3) the best of the classic rock tones. However, I think the Trainwreck is the all time greatest rock guitar amp circuit and should be the standard by which other rock amps are judged. It would be an unbelievable experience to build one.

That is quite a bit of opinion. The 18 watt is not my favorite...at all. I love a 5E3. Painting the TW as the all-time greatest rock amp is going way out on a limb. The standard by which others should be judged...not in my book. I could start naming amps, but that would be more opinion. Putting the opinion aside, your comments make me wonder if you know what you think you are building. It seems that you should do a lot more homework based on what you say you are after.

You are right, of course. I also have a predilection for the hyperbole. And it was a ton of opinion. But, everyone has an opinion.

I have read up on the TWs, love the simplicity and the idea. Have heard clones. Have heard the real deal (through Youtube FWIW). Think they (particularly the Express) sound amazing. Straight-to-the-point and high gain. Unlike a lot of people, I hate stompboxes and like a cord going directly from my guitar to my amp.

[xtian]

One more important question: do you normally play at window-rattling volume? Or at-home, bedroom-level volume? Because stock, the Express is LOUD. You'll have to add a master volume if you want it to be useful anywhere a lower than JET ENGINE volume is required.

In my opinion, since we're sharing, the Marshall JCM 800 2203 is THE rock amp. Has a nice master volume, too.

Haw! Opinions!

[LedZepp007]

One more important question: do you normally play at window-rattling volume? Or at-home, bedroom-level volume? Because stock, the Express is LOUD. You'll have to add a master volume if you want it to be useful anywhere a lower than JET ENGINE volume is required.

In my opinion, since we're sharing, the Marshall JCM 800 2203 is THE rock amp. Has a nice master volume, too.

Haw! Opinions!

I also like the 2203 (my buddy lives on them), but there seems to be something pure and unadulterated about the TW circuits.

I, fortunately or unfortunately, live in an apartment where people would be pissed at a cranked up amp. So a MV/Attenuator/VVI is a must. Or even a combination.

[Mark]

Have a look at the Dirty Little Monster circuits or AX-84, there are some good single ended circuits there that would be great for an apartment. If I wanted to crank an amp up in an apartment I would use a 2 watt amp, this is the wattage a Pignose puts out (roughly).

The trick with single ended amps is to get a BIG output transformer so the bass response remain intact, amps such as the Champs etc have small output transformers which I don't think do the amp any favours, but some people love them as they are.

[Colossal]

I, fortunately or unfortunately, live in an apartment where people would be pissed at a cranked up amp. So a MV/Attenuator/VVI is a must. Or even a combination.

LedZepp007,

Not trying to rain on your parade and where there's a will, there's a way, but in my experience and opinion, the Express is completely USELESS in an apartment scenario. The only way to realize its true glory is to run it as it was meant to be, LOUD. The other option would be to load down the amp and reamp at very low volumes for apartment use. I've tried an Airbrake attenuator which is good for knocking off a few dB but after that and most certainly at bedroom volume it just sucked the life out of the amp...for me anyway. Similarly, with an Express built with stock values, I don't find a post phase inverter master to be hugely useful except, again, for taking some of the edge off. But at bedroom volumes with the PPIMV barely cracked, it's all preamp distortion and again, in my experience and opinion, the preamp values in the Express do not generate a pleasing distortion. While a marvelous circuit with some very unique properties, she ain't a bedroom amp.

If you are interested, here is my build: https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... highlight=

[LedZepp007]

I, fortunately or unfortunately, live in an apartment where people would be pissed at a cranked up amp. So a MV/Attenuator/VVI is a must. Or even a combination.

LedZepp007,

Not trying to rain on your parade and where there's a will, there's a way, but in my experience and opinion, the Express is completely USELESS in an apartment scenario. The only way to realize its true glory is to run it as it was meant to be, LOUD. The other option would be to load down the amp and reamp at very low volumes for apartment use. I've tried an Airbrake attenuator which is good for knocking off a few dB but after that and most certainly at bedroom volume it just sucked the life out of the amp...for me anyway. Similarly, with an Express built with stock values, I don't find a post phase inverter master to be hugely useful except, again, for taking some of the edge off. But at bedroom volumes with the PPIMV barely cracked, it's all preamp distortion and again, in my experience and opinion, the preamp values in the Express do not generate a pleasing distortion. While a marvelous circuit with some very unique properties, she ain't a bedroom amp.

If you are interested, here is my build: https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... highlight=

What a build.

Also, I won't live in an apartment forever. Give it a year or two after I get married in May.

Dammit, I just want to do it! Just to build it! Make my ultimate amp!

[vibratoking]

Then do it. At least you know a little better what you are getting in to.

[Mark]

Just in case moving into that house is harder than you imagined. Getting house in Australia is a tough proposition.

Have you seen these clips?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLMjr2PfaNo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=425oKrxu_Xc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc9dRt9lC50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw3QToxi67k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geC0cOc7G4Q

http://www.ax84.com/static/4-4-0/AX84_4 ... 100216.pdf

[Colossal]

Just in case moving into that house is harder than you imagined. Getting house in Australia is a tough proposition.

http://www.ax84.com/static/4-4-0/AX84_4 ... 100216.pdf

Mark's suggestion is a good one and another possible option; a low wattage design. FWIW, I played Cliff Chapell's 4-4-0, one of the first prototype 2W TW builds using a 6SN7 dual triode as a push-pull power section. The amp had the goods and it did bloom easily into feedback. He had some custom Heyboer 10W 22k primary OTs wound and they had nice low end. Cliff's amp was mated to an AX84 design, over-sized 1x12 ported cab that had a very similar response to a 4x12. That said, that amp was still very LOUD, even at 2W. To get the singing overdrive, the gain needs to be up to about 11am to 1pm. Even with an inefficient speaker, you are well past TV volume.

In this situation, I would load down the amp or run it into an iso box, mic it, or load it into a reactive load, add a tiny bit of verb and delay and then reamp it. Then you can have full blown distortion which sounds like a recorded version of your sound, and at sleeping baby volume.