Routers

[Phil_S]

I managed to f***up three attempts at making a baffle. The bleeping router just isn't up the job. Bits slip from the collet and the height adjustment slips. It is a POS I bought from Sears about 25 years ago and it doesn't owe me anything. Father's day is coming up. It think it is a good time to get something "manly."

I can't justify going overboard on price. It would be really nice to get variable speed, 1/4 and 1/2 collets, and soft start.

Here's what I found:
Bosch 1617EVS: http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-1617EVS-2-1 ... er+1617evs Free shipping from Amazon, and offering $20 off on new Bosch products right now, pushing this near the top of the pack.
Bosch MRF23EVS http://www.cpooutlets.com/factory-recon ... itioned--3 Can't afford a new one of these, but the reconditioned price looks very attractive.
Milwaukee 5616-81 http://www.cpooutlets.com/factory-recon ... lt,pd.html Not sure about this brand for a router, but I think Milwaukee is generally well regarded.
Porter Cable 690LRVS http://www.amazon.com/PORTER-CABLE-690L ... able+speed I am somewhat concerned from reading several reviews about diehard PC users saying the new product isn't up to old standards.

I read many reviews. There are a few problems with reviews. One is that people who like that brand and product will write good things and people who happened to get a lemon write bad things. It is hard to tell if problems noted are to be expected or are rare. Build quality on PC seemed to get slammed pretty hard. These 4 routers are in my price range and people seem to like them. They are brands that have good reputations.

I don't think I have a problem with reconditioned items. The go for a decent discount. I can't say for sure it is right, but I figure if there was a problem and it was competently fixed and a factory warranty offered that should make it OK.

It would be helpful to hear from folks about:
1) Reconditioned vs. new and would you buy reconditioned?
2) These specific products whether you have direct experience or have some knowledge of them because a friend or co-worker uses one.
3) Other suggestions?

Thanks!

[cbass]

I like Makita routers.I have that same PC router it works good.

I like this one http://www.amazon.com/Makita-RF1101-4-H ... ita+router

[rooster]

Get this one, the BOMB and MOTHER of all routers.

http://www.tylertool.com/hitachi-m12vc- ... 91837392-2

[Cantplay]

I like the Triton, and Festool routers.

MUST have accessory is the HEPA vacuum with self start connection.

John

[Regan]

Don't overlook Hitachi routers either, I have the 2.25hp and sold my PC 690's.
Regan

[CHIP]

When I was looking for a good router about 10 years ago, a friend of mine that does custom cabinet building told me to go with pluinge routers, he said that someday I'd run into a project where I'd need it. He said he uses his plungers all the time, even when he's not plunge routing.
He was right.
He told me to find one of these reconditioned;
http://www.cpotools.com/bosch-1619evs-3 ... ge-routers

I love it.

[danotron]

Go for the good old standby router ....the Porter Cable....I have used those of decades and they keep working and working....I have others but the PC is always #1 to me

[cbass]

Seriously Makita I've used al those brands a lot I have most of them Makita routers are always the smoothest and quitest .Porter cable is not what it used to be .FWIW Sears has a router that's the same model as the bosch sometimes you can find it for cheap.
If you are just using it for a project here and there it shouldn't matter much.If you are using it a lot you want the Makita.
I saw someone mentioned festool I've never tried one I don't know any woodworkers that make enough money to buy a $600 router

[Phil_S]

Thanks for all the opinions. It is a confusing market place out there.

I have to rate this purchase as "for occasional use" so I'm simply looking for a good quality tool with some features. This is probably the last router I will ever buy (gallows humor?) I say that because the POS one that I have now must be 25 years old and if this new one lasts 25 years, then I'll be well up into my 90's. If I actually want another at that age, I'll be ready for the Festool but it is more than likely this one will outlast me.

The Makita looks very nice, but is a little above my price point. I think it is too much to spend for the amount of use it will see.

Based on reviews and cbass, I'm going to eliminate a new Porter Cable. Reviews I've seen tend to say they bought a new one because they really liked the old one, but it isn't the same tool. It seems they've allowed quality to go downhill and are resting on their name.

cbass: I have no fundamental objection the Craftsman brand, but most of them look a lot like the same POS I've got now, just updated. As everyone knows, Craftsman doesn't actually make anything, they just private label the product and change it slightly from the OEM model.

It looks like now Sears is making the model numbers so that things are more disguised than ever. It used to be most of the router part numbers started with 315, and there was one nice router that started with 320. I think that 320 router was the Bosch.

This is the Craftsman 2.0HP, 6 speed, soft start. At $102 It is clearly the bargain basement deal with fixed and plunge bases. It sets depth by the screw post design like the Bosch. I wonder if this is a Bosch product? I think you need super-secret clearance at Sears corporate to find the answer.
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-12-amp-2 ... ockType=G1
I'm going to see if I can go over there and look at it. Up close I may be able to actually see how similar it is to the Bosch. If it is a matter of making it cheaper and cutting 1/4 HP, I'm not sure that's such a big deal. I'd like to know if you have any thoughts about this Craftsman model.

Thanks again.

Opps, edited wrong post.

[Regan]

Looks like a decent router and lots of options. Gets good reviews overall, but from the sounds of it you may need to make a baseplate for it when you want to use your roundover bits due to the size of the hole in the stock baseplate. I would go for it, can't really lose at the price, and if you don't like it, take it back.
Regan

[dano-rator]

I have the Bosch 1617 and the craftsman equivalent both with fixed and plunge bases. They're pretty good all around, although I remember having to fool with the Bosch clamping mechanism on the plunge base as it was week at one point. At the time I was using these thing for hours each day. Another problem I had was with the power switch. I used it table mounted in a closed cabinet with dust extraction, and the switch is now flaky and intermittently wouldn't turn the machine on. Also, there is a provision for adjusting the height through the base from the top if mounted under a table, but I found it to be just too sloppy to be effective. Mounted in the plunge base I never had any trouble with height adjustments. But they are both pretty smooth and powerful enough for most tasks.

I also have a Milwaukee with a D handle base, otherwise very similar to the one in your link, and its a very nice router. Powerful and with a very easy height adjustment, much better than the Bosch fixed base.

If you're only gonna have one, it would be nice to have a plunge base if you can get the kids to spring for one. And for occasional use, I would have no reservation about going to the local Sears and seeing if any of the current offerings inspire you. They periodically go on sale, especially around Father's Day I would think.

Best of luck in your search and woodworking endeavors,
Dan

[Phil_S]

The closer I get to a decision, the harder it gets!

I finally found some decent on-line discussions of refurb vs. new. Mostly folks seem to agree with my view that refurb is as good as new. I'm sure there are exceptions. At least there is a warranty to fall back on.

I've narrowed down to the two Bosch models. The older 1617EVS is $20 off and free shipping from Amazon. This makes it only $10 more than refurb, so for $10 I'd get a new one.

The other is the new model, MRV23EVS, refurb, shown above. New is too pricey. Refurb is $80 less and $10 less than the 1617. It gets great on-line reviews from guys who have BOTH! This one will ship free, too.

There's a rub. And it is good this is an amp forum, and you'll know why when you see my question.

The 23 is rated at a full 15A draw. That concerns me. The branch I normally plug into is a 15A line that is on a FUSE, not a breaker. (Funny extension from the main breaker box with 2 fuses, go figure.) There are some electronics plugged into that branch circuit, like a TV, but nothing major and I'd say there is a very nominal load on that branch. If I'm running the router, no one is watching TV. I don't want to be eating fuses. It is a PITA to change them and then there is the problem of not having one when you need one. What do you think of my situation here? Would you avoid a 15A tool?

I have an unused 20A line in the kitchen that could be accessible. I have to run an extension cord either way. All the work I do has to be outside. I have no inside place to make sawdust. Maybe this is just what I should do.

I sure do appreciate all the comments. Everyone has been really helpful.

One more time around? Thanks.

Phil

Edit to add some minor facts. Assuming the stated 2.3 HP rating is accurate, 1HP = 745.7W. x2.3 = 1715W. /120V = 14.3A. At 95% efficiency, this beast is slightly over 15A. Put that in your pipe, too. Thanks.

[Regan]

Remember thats peak hp, you probably won't normally be drawing near that amount unless your really digging in so it should be ok. On the otherhand my favourite outside receptacle is hooked into my living room circuit and has blown the breaker with a household fan plugged in when I have used my little 13A table saw in that plug. I wouldn't worry about it too much, at my last job we ran the big 3hp porter cables into 15A receptacles and they didn't blow it unless two people tried using the same circuit.
Regan

[Phil_S]

You know, I thought about this after posting. I appreciate the confirming thoughts. To draw 15A, I'm going to have to be pushing some heavy load on the router. It must have something in it to add oomph to keep the motor turning at the right speed. For what I do, I don't imagine I'll pull more than 10A. Thanks.

[rp]

ooh! Power tool discussion. Any beer left?