Dr Z Route 66 (VVR3 Works)

doveman · Post by **doveman** » Sun May 06, 2012 2:28 am

Thinking of building but got over it. Found a good deal on a Dr Z Route 66 but it has no master volume. I can get a master volume installed by Dr Z for $150 plus shipping but ...

I had incredibly good experience with my Richter Supra-Luxe ... cathode biased 30w tweed. That thing is absolutely awesome with the VVR.

I sent a note tonight to Hall Amplification (Dana's VVR) but wondered if anyone had tried that here on a Dr Z amp. I realize they are all different amps ... but thought I'd ask.

Actually pick up the amp tomorrow ... then traveling for a week ... so it will be next week before I can play around with it. My guess is it's going to be great live ... but blowing me away compared to my VVR and MV amps at home.

pablogt · Post by **pablogt** » Sun May 06, 2012 7:50 am

From what I've seen in the z28 I have (which is basically the same circuit with different trannies and power tubes) the Route 66's controls actually are Bright channel gain / Dark channel gain / Master volume (although they are labeled as Treble/Bass/Volume). If you use VVR and want to scale only the PA section, I think you could use the volume control as the dividing point (drive compensation as Kevin O'Connor calls it). The Volume control is actually a traditional master volume control (pre-PI).

Pablo

doveman · Post by **doveman** » Sun May 06, 2012 11:42 pm

pablogt wrote:From what I've seen in the z28 I have (which is basically the same circuit with different trannies and power tubes) the Route 66's controls actually are Bright channel gain / Dark channel gain / Master volume (although they are labeled as Treble/Bass/Volume). If you use VVR and want to scale only the PA section, I think you could use the volume control as the dividing point (drive compensation as Kevin O'Connor calls it). The Volume control is actually a traditional master volume control (pre-PI).

Pablo

Actually ... it works pretty good when turned down ... and it is a looouuuddd amp as reported. But I don't think I will have to add a MV or VVR to it.

Here's a picture ... bad cell picture ... but works great. Tried iit out on this extra 2x12 cab I happen to have laying around. It's loaded with Celestion G-1265 and Scumback M75 (both 65 watts). The cab can be run at 4-8-16 ohms and so can the head. Cab cover, grill and piping even match.

[IMG:402:439]http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m168 ... 6wcab2.jpg[/img]

It sounds great!

doveman · Post by **doveman** » Sun May 13, 2012 1:51 pm

I sent a question to Hall Amplification on the VVR ... VVR3 for fixed bias was suggested. I sent them a follow-up question. But I think that a VVR on the power section would be a really cool mod. Sent them the RT66 schematic with a few more questions. I think this might be a killer mod for this amp. In no hurry ... but I can tell you that Richter Supra-Luxe was made into the most awesome tweed with the cathode biased VVR version.

doveman · Post by **doveman** » Tue May 22, 2012 2:36 pm

I could sure use some help on this topic. I like the Dr Z Route 66 ... but it is loud. I tried the Brake Lite although not a big fan of attenuators. It works OK but I'm not really blown away.

I am super-satisfied with the the Hall "cathode" VVR version that I put in my tweed. I have been talking to SkipZ and Dana (Hall Amps) and they are both suggesting "fixed biased kits" and that they will work. I have a couple more questions in to them on installation and whether to scale the whole amp or just the PI/Power.

I scoured the internet and found nobody who has installed the VVR on the RT66 or any other Z for that matter. Is there a reason or am I just breaking new ground that needs to be broken?

M Fowler · Post by **M Fowler** » Tue May 22, 2012 4:02 pm

I built the Route 66 but did not find that I needed a VVR or MV. But I do not record or use mike for gigs.

Mark

doveman · Post by **doveman** » Tue May 22, 2012 9:53 pm

M Fowler wrote:I built the Route 66 but did not find that I needed a VVR or MV. But I do not record or use mike for gigs.

Mark

I think mine is going to need it ... it's about 20db louder than the other two amps I have and they are just about right in the mix when I play out and are really easy to record. I like having the extra beef ... but a dial to tame it would be good ... I'm sort of spoiled with an amp with a real good master volume and another with a real good VVR. Not sure the Brake Lite does it for me.

M Fowler · Post by **M Fowler** » Wed May 23, 2012 3:27 am

Well that EF86 is pushing that preamp pretty good into a classic KT66 power section.

I've never used an amp with a VVR so have no history with the device, though I did buy a kit from Dana for a rainy day. I don't understand how the tone of the amp can be retained when you scale the whole amp or the PI?
But if I don't try a VVR I shouldn't give advice.

Add another jack with low impedance input instead like the Stangray has that lowers the volume considerably.

Mark

doveman · Post by **doveman** » Wed May 23, 2012 3:46 am

Been talking to Dana ... he thinks that applying the VVR to the PI-Power would make the most sense. I think that makes a lot of sense ... the "volume" on the RT66 is basically a pre-PI MV.

I'm close to pulling the trigger on the VVR3 ... but still open to comments. I just don't think it's been tried on this amp. Man if i could anywhere near the performance I got out of my Tweed/VVR, I'd be thrilled.

sliberty · Post by **sliberty** » Wed May 23, 2012 11:46 am

I have VVRs on several of my amps. I always scale the entire amp. So I am curious as to why Dana suggested scaling only the power stage. Is it because of the already existing Pre-PI MV? Or was there a concern about scaling an EF86?

doveman · Post by **doveman** » Wed May 23, 2012 12:00 pm

sliberty wrote:I have VVRs on several of my amps. I always scale the entire amp. So I am curious as to why Dana suggested scaling only the power stage. Is it because of the already existing Pre-PI MV? Or was there a concern about scaling an EF86?

Basically ... I could really go either way ... but with the pre-PI MV already there that might be my best option. The pentode front end really shouldn't be a problem if I wanted to go with the whole amp. But since I had the Pre-PI MV, scaling the PI/Power separately would make a lot of sense. Nice thing is that I could change it pretty easily and test both.

SkipZ basically said the same thing. So I'm going to take another look inside and base my decision on the differences in installation. SkipZ has more boards and separate pots. Dana's is one unit (if I can fit it in). Dana's is probably an easier installation for my amp ... especially if I can use one existing plugged hole in the back. I need to break out the chassis again.

sliberty · Post by **sliberty** » Wed May 23, 2012 12:08 pm

If I am not mistaken, the main difference in the installation is hat you would need additional diodes and a filter cap. Not a big deal really.

What are the expected differences in results between whole amp and power supply only scaling?

doveman · Post by **doveman** » Wed May 23, 2012 12:26 pm

sliberty wrote:If I am not mistaken, the main difference in the installation is hat you would need additional diodes and a filter cap. Not a big deal really.

What are the expected differences in results between whole amp and power supply only scaling?

It's 1 resistor and one wire ... per Skipz.

I think the whole amp would work but the existing pre-PI MV might not work exactly as intended. What I've heard about splitting the PREAMP and POWERAMP is that as you scale down the power amp, the pre-amp would eventually overload the power amp. So you pull the MV down in front of the already scaled power amp. Since I tend set on my amp and leave it, I think this would give me the most control. I imagine ... scale back the power amp a bit ... then make final adjustments with the controls on the front. I can't imagine it would be much trouble. I think I would go whole amp first if the MV was post-PI. But again ... easily tested either way.

Looking at a picture I took of the amp, I may have to go with the SkipZ given my options. I could mount the boards on the side panels. The only options for Dan's board on the back are directly over the EF86 or rectifier tubes. I don't think that either we be good.

sliberty · Post by **sliberty** » Wed May 23, 2012 12:35 pm

doveman wrote:
It's 1 resistor and one wire ... per Skipz

This is not correct. But I was wrong too. I looked up the manual, and the difference is just the addition of 2 diodes, but you also have to split the rail.

doveman · Post by **doveman** » Wed May 23, 2012 12:44 pm

sliberty wrote:
doveman wrote:
It's 1 resistor and one wire ... per Skipz
This is not correct. But I was wrong too. I looked up the manual, and the difference is just the addition of 2 diodes, but you also have to split the rail.

For which kit? This was per Skipz. They are different designs I think.

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Dr Z Route 66 (VVR3 Works)

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