Boycot Arizona

[passfan]

Its simply our turn, all Americans are immigrants.

After a while you get confused about who your talking about.

It seems like the problem is extreme enough that a lot of American citizens
are actually willing to vote and maybe even pay more taxes to resolve the issue
in a humane and equitable manner.

Those wet back are the nations future. The new Irish, the new wop, fresh grease.

Its been a while.

They don't want to immigrate Andy. They don't want to be "an American". They sneak over here to work and send the money home. They live in overcrowded shanties just like they do back in Mexico. This allows them to take over whole occupations by working for wages well below the poverty level and pushing "Americans" out of a fair paying job. They lower the standard of living wherever they congregate. I've been watching this since the early 90's in the area where I live. Crime follows them wherever they go. They are victims and perpetrators and their government supports their actions. That's the part that's hard to swallow right there. We don't have to be cruel or unusual we just need to enforce our laws, and from the moment they step across they're breaking them.

[Gibsonman63]

I am not one to get on the political soapbox often. The argument that I hear most often is that they are paying taxes. I know from experience that this is not entirely true. My wife was an accountant for a drywall company for a while. The guys with the questionable social security numbers would always claim as many dependants as allowed. If you are not filing or paying taxes, why have them take it out if your check?

... but not to worry. The goverment is keeping enough money out of my check to make up the difference.

[passfan]

I am not one to get on the political soapbox often. The argument that I hear most often is that they are paying taxes. I know from experience that this is not entirely true. My wife was an accountant for a drywall company for a while. The guys with the questionable social security numbers would always claim as many dependants as allowed. If you are not filing or paying taxes, why have them take it out if your check?

... but not to worry. The goverment is keeping enough money out of my check to make up the difference.

The government only takes what you tell them and you make it right at the end of the year just like the rest of us. These statements of untruths don't help any discussion. The rest of your post is very pertinent. The drywall industry is the first one I watched them take over. Lucky for me, mine is electrical, and it takes quite a while to learn it properly.

[Gibsonman63]

My point is that they use a fake (or someone elses) social security number, have the minimal amount of taxes withheld and then don't file the taxes to square things at the end of the year. If the IRS fianlly catches up with them to garnishes thier wages, they simply change jobs, use different SS number and start over, but most change jobs long before then.

Your assertion that my statements are incorrect with no facts to substantiate are exactly the reason that I seldom engage in political discussion, so this will be my last post on the subject.

I'll see you guys in the Trainwreck section where people play nicer!

[Structo]

Yep, even though I'm in a trade union, I have noticed more and more illegals getting through the paper work.
One such fellow was loaned out to another company when our company got slow.
They vetted his paper work with a bit more scrutiny and discovered his documents were not valid.
Adios.

Most if not all illegals have no goal of becoming Americans.
They simply can make 10 times the amount of money here and when they rent an apartment between 8-10 of them, they get by very frugally and can send money "home".

If we can simply deny them jobs they will self-deport.

[billyz]

And Don't forget the Employers who knowingly ( or don't want to really know ) hire Illegals so They don't have to PAY taxes, insurance or benefits, all at less than the going hourly rate.

[Andy Le Blanc]

I'm self employed,

I don't have to PAY taxes, insurance or benefits, and work at less than the going hourly rate.

will I get deported?

Every "job" I've ever had the owner would gladly pay nothing for labor.

all of this means there are still jobs here that still need to go to china

May be wal mart should start a work visa program with the federal labor dept.
so it can keep the unions out and pay it workers even less.... equally....

slavery in plain sight but called some new clever acronym, its not like it a real job.
and white males get to keep their managerial superiority.

[rbryerton]

I'm self employed,

I don't have to PAY taxes, insurance or benefits, and work at less than the going hourly rate.

will I get deported?....

No, you're not committing a FELONY by being here illegally unlike the illegals, are you? I doubt it.

...
and white males get to keep their managerial superiority.

Sounds good to me. About time we stopped being $hat upon

[rbryerton]

OK, I came up w/a solution. Deport them all.

Seriously, if you're a citizen, you have a social security number, correct? Why can't the crappy FED set up an online system to verify Soc. Sec. numbers with a name, similar to how the credit card companies do business.

Everyone has their number ENCODED on their drivers license/state ID card.

Not having this proof or a visa/passport would be grounds for deportation. Fake ID/Soc. Sec. number? Bye bye. Let me know if you need more details

I'm all for legal immigration; do it right, and become an American. The people who commit felonies by being here illegally? Don't get me started...

Man, I'm a genius.

[Structo]

They already have the system in place.
It's called E-Verify. It's part of Homeland Security.
http://www.dhs.gov/files/programs/gc_1185221678150.shtm

They should make it mandatory that an employer check his applicants documents to be sure the numbers match the name.
Not some guy that died 20 years ago.

[billyz]

So who is hiring those guys standing down at the street corner ? Are they checking their SSN, drivers license ? No, Because they don't want to, why ?
What about when the mega contractors were building the mega developments ? why didn't they check the immigration status? answer, they wanted to pay under the table, no taxes, no liability, no insurance, low wages, no benefits, etc, etc.

What about the housemaid, the gardener, lawncare, roofers, tile guys, etc. Who is hiring them ? oh and the migrant farm workers, who is eating their product ? Maybe the hypocrites ?

[Cygnus X1]

Walmart is not required to pay a wage other than the minimum.

By the same measure no one is required to work at Walmart.

Don't like it, don't shop there.

But don't be so haughty and so willing to "help the poor working class" just to take away the choice of us who do shop there, and those who work there, and those who invest in the budget market principal.

Most of the folks working there are either supplementing family income, supplementing retirement, or just starting out.
They do have excellent training opportunities if one is astute enough to take advantage.

Walmart is yet another example of the Ivory Tower types telling the rest of us how to run things.
But the ultimate result of State Control is the 70's Soviet Union, where everyone (both customer and worker) is equally miserable.
Only the Ivory Tower reaps the profits.
Us underlings are unintelligent and not worthy of such rewards.

Liberalism on the surface seems to be easy and generous.
Scratch just a little below the skin and it turns out to be cruelest form of enslavement.

[passfan]

My point is that they use a fake (or someone elses) social security number, have the minimal amount of taxes withheld and then don't file the taxes to square things at the end of the year. If the IRS fianlly catches up with them to garnishes thier wages, they simply change jobs, use different SS number and start over, but most change jobs long before then.

Your assertion that my statements are incorrect with no facts to substantiate are exactly the reason that I seldom engage in political discussion, so this will be my last post on the subject.

I'll see you guys in the Trainwreck section where people play nicer!

And I accepted your main points, but your implying that the government makes up for that lost revenue by keeping more of your money is what you refer to as "no facts to substantiate" and should be reason enough to keep you out of political discussions in and of itself. My comments should have had nothing to do with it.

[passfan]

I'm self employed,

I don't have to PAY taxes, insurance or benefits, and work at less than the going hourly rate.

will I get deported?

Every "job" I've ever had the owner would gladly pay nothing for labor.

all of this means there are still jobs here that still need to go to china

May be wal mart should start a work visa program with the federal labor dept.
so it can keep the unions out and pay it workers even less.... equally....

slavery in plain sight but called some new clever acronym, its not like it a real job.
and white males get to keep their managerial superiority.

Andy are you just fishing here now or are you trying to be serious?

[Andy Le Blanc]

Yes.....

It is a tuff subject, I would rather fall on the humanitarian side, to a fault.
It is too easy to make less of another for the circumstances of their life.
We do enjoy, a relative absence of true poverty. The grinding reality that
would make an "illegal" see the providence of such a endeavor is usually
lost upon those that don't have a good basis for comparison. Yes there needs
to be a practical solution, and it should not be one that makes less of a person.
It could be you that bears the brunt an other's inhumanity.

It is our turn to realize a solution that does not belittle ourselves.