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[Max]

Does anyone know what Dumble the TS-1 is a clone of?

[img956]http://a.imageshack.us/img26/1593/ts1100.jpg[/img]

Hi jborders5,

why do you think that the TS-1 could be a Dumble clone? Are you sure that you don't mix up something?

The Two-Rock history:

"Bill Krinard has been involved in tube amp technology for the past 40 years. During this time he has designed hi-fi tube amps and has spent countless hours tweaking production guitar amps. In addition, Bill has created several new and innovative circuits and applications for guitar amplifiers that have been copied by many. Already known locally as the tube-amp guru, his extensive knowledge of construction techniques and huge reservoir of tone secrets is unsurpassed." (source: http://www.two-rock.com/home/history)

So obviously all their amps are Bill Krinard’s creations, who has a "huge reservoir of tone secrets" and his tone secrets have been "copied by many" - and not the other way round as your post implies.

So why do you think the TS-1 could be a Dumble clone?

Cheers,

Max

[erwin_ve]

Max, it's common knowledge many TR amps are copies of dumbles.I think they took it a step further with some of the new models. Looking at a schematic of a oldemerald pro; it's a straight copy of a HRM dumble.

[jelle]

Hi jborders5,

why do you think that the TS-1 could be a Dumble clone? Are you sure that you don't mix up something?

The Two-Rock history:

"Bill Krinard has been involved in tube amp technology for the past 40 years. During this time he has designed hi-fi tube amps and has spent countless hours tweaking production guitar amps. In addition, Bill has created several new and innovative circuits and applications for guitar amplifiers that have been copied by many. Already known locally as the tube-amp guru, his extensive knowledge of construction techniques and huge reservoir of tone secrets is unsurpassed." (source: http://www.two-rock.com/home/history)

So obviously all their amps are Bill Krinard’s creations, who has a "huge reservoir of tone secrets" and his tone secrets have been "copied by many" - and not the other way round as your post implies.

So why do you think the TS-1 could be a Dumble clone?

Cheers,

Max

So now we know the truth! Mr Dumble has been copying Two rock amps! Boy, were we wrong all along.

Seriously, apart from layout differences, is this amp a straight high plate Skyline ODS clone. Looks allright.

[hitchcaster]

Does anyone know what Dumble the TS-1 is a clone of?

[img956]http://a.imageshack.us/img26/1593/ts1100.jpg[/img]

Hi jborders5,

why do you think that the TS-1 could be a Dumble clone? Are you sure that you don't mix up something?

The Two-Rock history:

"Bill Krinard has been involved in tube amp technology for the past 40 years. During this time he has designed hi-fi tube amps and has spent countless hours tweaking production guitar amps. In addition, Bill has created several new and innovative circuits and applications for guitar amplifiers that have been copied by many. Already known locally as the tube-amp guru, his extensive knowledge of construction techniques and huge reservoir of tone secrets is unsurpassed." (source: http://www.two-rock.com/home/history)

So obviously all their amps are Bill Krinard’s creations, who has a "huge reservoir of tone secrets" and his tone secrets have been "copied by many" - and not the other way round as your post implies.

So why do you think the TS-1 could be a Dumble clone?

Cheers,

Max

max the earlier amps were basically exact clones of dumbles they got their hands on. like the "custom" was a exact clone of a 70's dumble. they didn't admit that and said they just did it blind and made a tonal clone using their "ear" even though the amp was in the shop. the also hid the clone part by moving the pots around and making it look different to the uninformed musician. on that amp there were some differences like no fet, and they added their version of an effects loop. the later amps are just them messing with the circuits and coming up with new ideas/mods. this amp people are calling a dumble clone because they admit it this time, and didn't move the pots around and just did it exactly like dumble did it.. all that said i think its cool what they do and they are trying new things like different tubes, reverb, and footswitchable FET and things like that. thats how i see it at least. hope that helps

[Max]

max the earlier amps were basically exact clones of dumbles they got their hands on. like the "custom" was a exact clone of a 70's dumble. they didn't admit that and said they just did it blind and made a tonal clone using their "ear" even though the amp was in the shop. the also hid the clone part by moving the pots around and making it look different to the uninformed musician.

AFAIK Alexander Dumble doesn't have any patents for his circuits and they can be used by everybody for free as long as you don't use his name.

So why such a nonsense? Because by some childish sort of pride Bill Krinard wished to be perceived as Jan Vermeer and not Han van Meegeren?

Cheers,

Max

[jelle]

Ouch!

[bluesfendermanblues]

Ouch!

Mega Ouch!!

Han van Meegeren being the biggest art fraught of his time....

IMO TwoRock are not better or worse than every other amp maker, who make copies of Dumbles. Everybody tries to immitate best practice and then innovate a bit on their own.

[Max]

Everybody tries to immitate best practice and then innovate a bit on their own.

Indeed! From the very beginning of our life we imitate and mimic, adapt and practice, improve and innovate. So why being ashamed of it and deny the obvious (erwin_ve: "it's common knowledge...") in such a curious way like these Two-Rock "historians"?

And btw: What the hell is the problem with not being Jan Vermeer, Jimi Hendrix or Albert Einstein? Why should someone be ashamed that his amps are "only" some sort of plagiarism as long as they are no illegal forgeries and some musicians like them?

Believe me, if I would be able to "only" clone Dumble amps in such a way that Larry Carlton, David Lindley, Eric Gale and John Mayer would use my amps, I would be very very proud of my expertise as a Dumble copyist and would wear a T-shirt day and night with my company slogan, which would probably be: "Dumble Imitation Guaranteed!"

But all this: ”Huuh, eeh, no, no, this is no Dumble copy, perhaps, ehem, a little bit "inspired by", but a copy, no, never, and mine is blue btw!" is only awkward IMO, at least if this is not the truth, and this at least is how I understood the posts of hitchcaster and erwin_ve.

Concerning "history": AFAIK the Canon management did not commit Seppuku out of shame to have started their business with a copy of a Leica III, what was legal, too, because the Leica III was not protected by a patent in Japan at that time.

Cheers and happy cloning,

Max

[bluesfendermanblues]

.........I would be very very proud of my expertise as a Dumble copyist and would wear a T-shirt day and night with my company slogan, which would probably be: "Dumble Imitation Guaranteed!"
Max

Please, put me on the list for a t-shirt, when you order a batch.