SSS - Nukular Warhead - Chassis are Finished

[txbluesboy]

Having never really seen or heard a SSS, I don't know exactly how the filters are supposed to sound. What I tried to do was make the filters go from almost nothing, to deep into the sound. I am still playing with them to find out how useful they are. I don't think they are the most important part of this amp, just another tone tweak point. I have started leaving the high filter on #2 position to take a little of the jagged top end off.

[Max]

I don't think they are the most important part of this amp

Based on my own experience with Dumblelands and SSSs I would say, that much (if not most) of the typical charakter of the DL/SSS sounds you know from SRV or from Larry Carlton is a result of the filter circuities in these amps. Without these you will have a hard time to get SRV tones IMHO.

Cheers

Max

[thyx]

Hey guys,

Here is some info to contemplate...

Kind comments are welcome,

rj

Bias for power tubes S/B taken off of cathode of driver tube. This would eliminate the need for additional signal path through bias resistors (220k in your schematic) and the .1 blocking capacitor. The power tubes would then be directly driven by the cathode of the driver tube, through only the 1.5k control grid resistors.

[Max]

just another tone tweak point.

I always found a lot of the different combinations of "High" and "Low" far more dramatic as the influence of the three EQ pots.
To change the sound in daily use I tended to change only the positions of the filters and those of the other EQ switches and used the EQ pots only for some subtle finetuning.

Cheers

Max

[topbrent]

I updated my iteration of the SSS preamp...


rj

RJ, nice drawings. Thanks for posting them up.

I am curious about the reverb you show in your SSS schem.
Your reverb is a basic fender style, but in place of the standard Fender spec. 3.3M/10pf wet/dry mixer section, you have inserted the Hi/Lo Filter network.

As you have drawn it, I wonder if the reverb-dry signal would change with each position of the Hi/Lo filter switches?

Anyone have some thoughts or input on this?

Brandon, Max, Gil, Marcos, anyone else that has been inside the real deal:
- Is this where the Hi/lo network was originally placed in the SSS/DL amps?

Thanks

[RJ Guitars]

I am curious about the reverb you show in your SSS schem.
Your reverb is a basic fender style, but in place of the standard Fender spec. 3.3M/10pf wet/dry mixer section, you have inserted the Hi/Lo Filter network.

As you have drawn it, I wonder if the reverb-dry signal would change with each position of the Hi/Lo filter switches?

I was hopeful that we'd get something on this, I had not really considered the possibility before that.

Maybe when I can do a little bench work I'll eventually get the answer the old fashioned way using the build and test technique.

rj

[RJ Guitars]

The quest for technical info on the SSS still goes on. For me, rereading the old posts is a critical part of that quest.

From another time and place, but quite relevant -

... 90% of all Dumble amps are custom made for a certain guitar player to suit him best.…
Cheers and have a fine weekend

… To achieve the wild and sometimes still more glassy "Live Sound" of the Mid-Eighties (e.g "Live in Italy") the Dumbleland Special 150 Watt (4x6550A) and Dumbleland 300SL (6x6550A) are both far better suited than a SSS 100 Watt with 6L6. The 100 watt SSS simply does not have the headroom and low-frequency-punch you need for Mid-Eighties SRV "Live-Tones

... Step Filters:
As far as I remember now I met several (SSS/DL) with seven and one with eleven positions. These were their effects on the amps sound to my ears:

High Filter:
Each position of the "High" filters in my ears boosts a certain band in the high frequency range. One position gives a bit more "silvery sparkle", one more "glass", one more "silk" and so on. It is a bit like having an array of different "Bright" switches, all with a different effect on the high-frequency-range. Extremly usefull. (At least for myself).

Low Filter:
If you turn this from left to right the "Lows" get more pronounced. It is a bit like having different "Deep" switches, each one with a different effect on the low-frequency-range.

If I did adjustments to these "Step Filters" I allways adjusted both to kind of "balance" a sound in the direction I wanted for a special piece of music.

Their are very "wild" settings possible, that may sound really weird to some. As what I hear from some SRV Live recordings he definitely somtetimes has chosen very "wild" ones.

The possibilities of these 2 Filters in my opinion go far beyond that what the ususal three tone-knobs can do. I allways have great fun playing one of these beasts: Very emotional!

My impression is, that these Filters have a great impact on how these amps sound and behave in total, but I don't now by what kind of circuity they achieve their effects.


Max

In combination with the little we know about these amps this makes the likelihood that "one" design and schematic for an SSS is not too likely... would almost seem that "season to your personal taste" is essential.

…if you read all the posts I've made you would know what the SSS is, it's a big twin. Skyline EQ into an Ampeg style PI, and the filters are in RDH4, they are a second EQ between the preamp and PI.

...150W versions use 4 6550's

... Without divulging all the hairy details of what makes an SSS an SSS, you can get a pretty close proximity using a low-plate skyline EQ into a Fender style reverb you'll be on track.

... Those early ones had some crazy stuff going on, Cathode to plate feedback, 3 tube reverb, Inductors, 7 tubes in the preamp total- Cool sounding for sure, but not the SRV thing to my ears.

... One of the amps (newer) had what looked to be mercury Dynaco Iron at the OT, as well as the 12AU7/12BH7 Driver setup, it also had a lower gain type preamp. it was a 150W amp with 4 6550's and definitely said "Steel String Singer" on it.

... the first 4 SSS's used 6l6's, and plain jane fender twin Iron, ... #1 and 4 belong to henry kaiser, #2 is the one with red switches that john mayer has (used to live in Japan), #3 was the snakeskin one lindley used to own. all the ones after that are 150W and use 6550's.

... The Hi-Lo filters are like tone controls after the EQ Recovery stage.

That is actually quite a lot of info... I'm trying to absorb and incorporate it into my SSS schematics at the moment.

[topbrent]

Thanks for condensing that info again. After 14 pages of SSS reading, a little bit of focus is probably a good thing.

I just want to say thanks to all, and that I am glad there are some posts in this thread by guys who have actually been inside a SSS.

Brandon's info is pretty thorough. To add to his info, Here is some info that marcos shared in my ab763-sss thread.

IMHO the Skyliner stack gives you a very fat,warm but not very variable clean tone.I personally would recommend a larger Mid cap, I have had very good success with a 33 nF with a 150K slope resistor.I know that this has not been seen in real Dumbles, but it sounds good anyway,very Fender-ish and a little warmer than the 50 nF used by HAD himself.I also feel the feedback loop on V1b tends to lose some sparkle, so I would delete that.BTW I once had the chance to look into a SSS, it had a very Fender-y tone stack, but a 150 K slope resistor, 270 pF Treble cap, 150 pF Bright cap,50 nF Mid cap, also 22 µF bypass caps, if I remember correctly.As I mentioned in an earlier post, gorgeous clean tones, the best I have ever heard

Brandon's info about it basically being a rev'ed up twin-reverb with the post-PI driver is probably pretty darn close to the mark. Marcos' comments seem to basically confirm that advice.

[RJ Guitars]

Hello AGF SSS fans,

I said I wasn't going to draw up an SVT style schematic for the SSS unless someone convinced me that the SSS amp used it. I am for the most part convinced... at least enough to go ahead and draw up my iteration of it. It seems that it depends on which particular SSS amp you are trying to clone. Everything I've learned indicates that all the later ones used the SVT style cathode driver and 6550 power tubes.

As always, the "Unverified Draft" label might be very significant. The schematic has not undergone any peer review and has not been built by me at this point in time.

Kind comments in combination with any technical evaluation that might prevent us from building something that won't work or is just plain wrong, are welcome.

thanks,

rj

[thyx]

Kind comments in combination with any technical evaluation that might prevent us from building something that won't work or is just plain wrong, are welcome.

thanks,

rj

R15, R16 and the 15k bias pot (along with their opposite-hand counterparts) need to be adjusted, as required, to deliver the required bias (and range) depending upon available negative bias voltage and power-tube plate voltage...along with using a 12AX7 in that spot. R17 S/B 1.5k, R14 S/B 100k (2 watt), R13 S/B 330k...along with the changes to the corresponding resistors for the rest of the power amp. That should get you going on the right track...

[RJ Guitars]

R15, R16 and the 15k bias pot (along with their opposite-hand counterparts) need to be adjusted, as required, to deliver the required bias (and range) depending upon available negative bias voltage and power-tube plate voltage...along with using a 12AX7 in that spot. R17 S/B 1.5k, R14 S/B 100k (2 watt), R13 S/B 330k...along with the changes to the corresponding resistors for the rest of the power amp. That should get you going on the right track...

Thank you Thyx - I hope we conquer this beast before too long here.

There is a note in "The Tube Book" from Aspen Pittman that gives the resistor value changes that he suggests for converting the 12DW7 to a 12AX7 in an SVT amp. Do you think those are what we need here?

Also, I guess I am still sorting out if it makes any difference for the bias on the driver tube if we use two output tubes per side rather than three.

For the output tubes I planned to shoot for 500V on the plates and 490 on the screens... I think this was something I read previously that Funk had suggested.

thanks,

rj

[dr. who]

So how are these builds going?

[M Fowler]

I moved mine from one work bench to another does that count?

[RJ Guitars]

Sorry Guys,

I lost my father to cancer recently and honestly amp building just hasn't been a priority for me for several weeks now. I am just starting now to look back into what I had going on a couple months back.

The SSS amp has been a curiosity to me but never a burning passion to build it. I would love to understand it and succeed at building it but I don't think I'll ever need that kind of high power output in my gigging situation. Plus, who am I going to get to carry this thing?

It also brought out some internal friction here on the forum and behind the scenes as well. I decided to let it set for a while and give time for everybody to gather perspective and see what I could learn in the meantime. I think I can build one now, but the time and desire haven't really hit me yet...

Here is one bit of progress and useful info. Look up "dreric" here on the forum if you want some Fender transformers including some behemoth monster power transformers for a 300 watt 6550 Fender - or an SSS as the case might be. I traded up a set of trannies from him and I have to say that I have never seen a transformer this big that was not mounted on a power pole somewhere. He also has a bunch of other Fender iron and is a terrific guy to deal with...

thanks,

rj

[Structo]

Sorry for your loss RJ.

Eventually most of us have to say goodbye to our parents.
Lost my dad in 2006.

Good thoughts sent your way.