What 50w Dumble Should I Build?

[talbany]

Hey all,

First time poster here and I gotta say, I love all the threads, layouts, soundclips, etc, that you guys have laid out here. I just want to say thank you!

I'm looking to build my first dumble amp and didn't necessarily want to go 100 watts. I'm wondering what 50 watters you'd recommend I start with? I want something that can get close to the quintessential "dumble" sound, however, I understand that there are tons of variations and there may not be such a thing as quintessential. The reason for going 50 watts is really just volume and a somewhat simpler circuit.

A bit of background, I'm not completely new to building amps (but new enough). I've got a 5E3 Tweed Deluxe and an AA1164 Princeton Reverb under my belt. There are definitely some things that I haven't been exposed to in a Dumble build, however. Things like the FET relay board and the DIN switch. I've been looking at the 50 Watt ODS 2nd generation and 3rd generation layouts. I'm thinking maybe one of those would be up my alley. Let me know what you guys think. I'm going to be scouring the threads and stuff to see if there are any other options or if there is a 50 watter that has some supplemental info such as parts lists, etc.

Thanks!

Tommy

Having built and played all of these ODS Designs as well as done all the layouts here. This is what I recommend all you newbies do if you make a post like?
Which ODS version should I build? or should I do a 100w or a 50W? etc etc...

So if you or anyone else out there can go deeper and give us a breakdown of exactly what it is your wanting out of your ODS Design in things like?
What style of music are you looking for? Blues/Fusion/Rock or a combination of several or are you doing mostly covers?
The next would be are you a Professional musician or just a livingroom player?.
A good way to do this would be to compare a sound in your head to that of another amp you have played as this gives us a good idea as to where you want to go. Also are you looking to do a head or a combo,what is your speaker setup do you use outboard efx and most important are you looking to get as close as possible to the sound of an original Dumble Overdrive Special or are you going for something else. You tube clips are always a great picture for us to hear as well!!

BTW. I know you are just asking about a 50 or 100w amp. A big part of the Dumble sound and feel IMO comes from the added current of a 100W amp however all of this and some of the questions I have are partially related to the above, so I feel like I am giving you my honest answer I always want to know more than most people are willing to give me. My first several ODS builds were HRM's and didn't find out later on that I was a "Non" HRM player. I wish at that time I had someone with more experience I could ask more of these type questions before jumping in and spending a bunch of time and money on an amp that wasn't quite what I was expecting. So this goes out out to all you newbies!!.. The more specific you are the better the answer as well as more responses you will most likely get back

If the question is vague I generally won't respond..

Tony

[PicknStrum]

Welcome and good luck on your build.

To save you time....................

Go to Taylor at Amplified Nation for chassis and boards, he usually has them for sale in the "For Sale" section.

Ceritone has a mixed reputation on the page. Some guys don't like him some of us don't really care. He uses cheap electrolytics.

There is also a vendor who sells a complete PCB that can be used for 3 different models.

There are other vendors who sell similar products.

Don't worry about the 50/100 switch, you'll never use it.

Magnetic Components has the best transformer prices.

All of the parts lists will be out of date.

Between Mouser and Antique Electronic Supply (6PS caps) you'll find all the parts you need.

Decide on a chassis, pre-made or DIY but get it or make it before you build the amp. It's hard to to after the chassis weights 30 pounds.

Create a build log as you build, take and post lots of photos. This creates interest in your build and more people will follow the thread. This way when trouble come up you'll have more eye on your project.

Most of all have fun!

Eric

Cool - I sent a message over to Amplified Nation as I didn't see anything listed on their websites. All great info and I'll definitely be looking into Magnetic Components and do my due diligence on getting correct / good parts. I do plan on using Mouser for the essentials but I'll work off that older BOM list to start.

I'm definitely going to go for a pre-made chassis. This was one lesson I learned from my last build (princeton reverb) - have the chassis and faceplate figured out before doing anything else.

Hey all,

First time poster here and I gotta say, I love all the threads, layouts, soundclips, etc, that you guys have laid out here. I just want to say thank you!

I'm looking to build my first dumble amp and didn't necessarily want to go 100 watts. I'm wondering what 50 watters you'd recommend I start with? I want something that can get close to the quintessential "dumble" sound, however, I understand that there are tons of variations and there may not be such a thing as quintessential. The reason for going 50 watts is really just volume and a somewhat simpler circuit.

A bit of background, I'm not completely new to building amps (but new enough). I've got a 5E3 Tweed Deluxe and an AA1164 Princeton Reverb under my belt. There are definitely some things that I haven't been exposed to in a Dumble build, however. Things like the FET relay board and the DIN switch. I've been looking at the 50 Watt ODS 2nd generation and 3rd generation layouts. I'm thinking maybe one of those would be up my alley. Let me know what you guys think. I'm going to be scouring the threads and stuff to see if there are any other options or if there is a 50 watter that has some supplemental info such as parts lists, etc.

Thanks!

Tommy

Having built and played all of these ODS Designs as well as done all the layouts here. This is what I recommend all you newbies do if you make a post like?
Which ODS version should I build? or should I do a 100w or a 50W? etc etc...

So if you or anyone else out there can go deeper and give us a breakdown of exactly what it is your wanting out of your ODS Design in things like?
What style of music are you looking for? Blues/Fusion/Rock or a combination of several or are you doing mostly covers?
The next would be are you a Professional musician or just a livingroom player?.
A good way to do this would be to compare a sound in your head to that of another amp you have played as this gives us a good idea as to where you want to go. Also are you looking to do a head or a combo,what is your speaker setup do you use outboard efx and most important are you looking to get as close as possible to the sound of an original Dumble Overdrive Special or are you going for something else. You tube clips are always a great picture for us to hear as well!!

BTW. I know you are just asking about a 50 or 100w amp. A big part of the Dumble sound and feel IMO comes from the added current of a 100W amp however all of this and some of the questions I have are partially related to the above, so I feel like I am giving you my honest answer I always want to know more than most people are willing to give me. My first several ODS builds were HRM's and didn't find out later on that I was a "Non" HRM player. I wish at that time I had someone with more experience I could ask more of these type questions before jumping in and spending a bunch of time and money on an amp that wasn't quite what I was expecting. So this goes out out to all you newbies!!.. The more specific you are the better the answer as well as more responses you will most likely get back

If the question is vague I generally won't respond..

Tony

Your layouts are awesome - I love all the content you've provided for hacks like me! thanks!

In getting to your point, I totally understand what you are saying and will do my best here to answer all of your questions and give you guys a better breakdown.

I'll start by saying I'm not a professional musician - I'm a living room player with plans to return to playing out on weekends in the future - who knows when / if that will be.

I like to play a lot of styles of music with my favorites being country (mostly 90's and forward), blues, and rock/classic rock/alt rock.

Tend to lean for single coils via strat and tele first but like humbuckers too.

I plan on making this as a head and going through a homemade pine 1x12 speaker cabinet. I'm not sure on speaker choice yet and was hopeful you guys will help me with that (either now or down the road).

I am a pedal guy and have my fair share - typically run through front of amp. But I do also love to crank the amp for natural breakup or set it for semi-big cleans (I always think Fender Twin Reverb).

Now to the biggest question: I believe what I want is something closest to an original ODS. I would like the big cleans but also a good amount of the Violin / Saxophone / thick / sustainy drive. I didn't really even know there was an HRM vs. non-HRM until you mentioned it. So in reading a little about both and listening to some clips, I believe I want the gainier non-HRM type-amp. This thread has also led me to believe I absolutely should stick with 100watts - I'll probably leave in the switchable power cut but at least I'll have an option.

Seems like the #102 and #124 would be up my alley. Anyway I should lean as far as one over the other? They don't look like they're too far apart from one another...

[talbany]

Welcome and good luck on your build.

To save you time....................

Go to Taylor at Amplified Nation for chassis and boards, he usually has them for sale in the "For Sale" section.

Ceritone has a mixed reputation on the page. Some guys don't like him some of us don't really care. He uses cheap electrolytics.

There is also a vendor who sells a complete PCB that can be used for 3 different models.

There are other vendors who sell similar products.

Don't worry about the 50/100 switch, you'll never use it.

Magnetic Components has the best transformer prices.

All of the parts lists will be out of date.

Between Mouser and Antique Electronic Supply (6PS caps) you'll find all the parts you need.

Decide on a chassis, pre-made or DIY but get it or make it before you build the amp. It's hard to to after the chassis weights 30 pounds.

Create a build log as you build, take and post lots of photos. This creates interest in your build and more people will follow the thread. This way when trouble come up you'll have more eye on your project.

Most of all have fun!

Eric

Cool - I sent a message over to Amplified Nation as I didn't see anything listed on their websites. All great info and I'll definitely be looking into Magnetic Components and do my due diligence on getting correct / good parts. I do plan on using Mouser for the essentials but I'll work off that older BOM list to start.

I'm definitely going to go for a pre-made chassis. This was one lesson I learned from my last build (princeton reverb) - have the chassis and faceplate figured out before doing anything else.

Hey all,

First time poster here and I gotta say, I love all the threads, layouts, soundclips, etc, that you guys have laid out here. I just want to say thank you!

I'm looking to build my first dumble amp and didn't necessarily want to go 100 watts. I'm wondering what 50 watters you'd recommend I start with? I want something that can get close to the quintessential "dumble" sound, however, I understand that there are tons of variations and there may not be such a thing as quintessential. The reason for going 50 watts is really just volume and a somewhat simpler circuit.

A bit of background, I'm not completely new to building amps (but new enough). I've got a 5E3 Tweed Deluxe and an AA1164 Princeton Reverb under my belt. There are definitely some things that I haven't been exposed to in a Dumble build, however. Things like the FET relay board and the DIN switch. I've been looking at the 50 Watt ODS 2nd generation and 3rd generation layouts. I'm thinking maybe one of those would be up my alley. Let me know what you guys think. I'm going to be scouring the threads and stuff to see if there are any other options or if there is a 50 watter that has some supplemental info such as parts lists, etc.

Thanks!

Tommy

Having built and played all of these ODS Designs as well as done all the layouts here. This is what I recommend all you newbies do if you make a post like?
Which ODS version should I build? or should I do a 100w or a 50W? etc etc...

So if you or anyone else out there can go deeper and give us a breakdown of exactly what it is your wanting out of your ODS Design in things like?
What style of music are you looking for? Blues/Fusion/Rock or a combination of several or are you doing mostly covers?
The next would be are you a Professional musician or just a livingroom player?.
A good way to do this would be to compare a sound in your head to that of another amp you have played as this gives us a good idea as to where you want to go. Also are you looking to do a head or a combo,what is your speaker setup do you use outboard efx and most important are you looking to get as close as possible to the sound of an original Dumble Overdrive Special or are you going for something else. You tube clips are always a great picture for us to hear as well!!

BTW. I know you are just asking about a 50 or 100w amp. A big part of the Dumble sound and feel IMO comes from the added current of a 100W amp however all of this and some of the questions I have are partially related to the above, so I feel like I am giving you my honest answer I always want to know more than most people are willing to give me. My first several ODS builds were HRM's and didn't find out later on that I was a "Non" HRM player. I wish at that time I had someone with more experience I could ask more of these type questions before jumping in and spending a bunch of time and money on an amp that wasn't quite what I was expecting. So this goes out out to all you newbies!!.. The more specific you are the better the answer as well as more responses you will most likely get back

If the question is vague I generally won't respond..

Tony

Your layouts are awesome - I love all the content you've provided for hacks like me! thanks!

In getting to your point, I totally understand what you are saying and will do my best here to answer all of your questions and give you guys a better breakdown.

I'll start by saying I'm not a professional musician - I'm a living room player with plans to return to playing out on weekends in the future - who knows when / if that will be.

I like to play a lot of styles of music with my favorites being country (mostly 90's and forward), blues, and rock/classic rock/alt rock.

Tend to lean for single coils via strat and tele first but like humbuckers too.

I plan on making this as a head and going through a homemade pine 1x12 speaker cabinet. I'm not sure on speaker choice yet and was hopeful you guys will help me with that (either now or down the road).

I am a pedal guy and have my fair share - typically run through front of amp. But I do also love to crank the amp for natural breakup or set it for semi-big cleans (I always think Fender Twin Reverb).

Now to the biggest question: I believe what I want is something closest to an original ODS. I would like the big cleans but also a good amount of the Violin / Saxophone / thick / sustainy drive. I didn't really even know there was an HRM vs. non-HRM until you mentioned it. So in reading a little about both and listening to some clips, I believe I want the gainier non-HRM type-amp. This thread has also led me to believe I absolutely should stick with 100watts - I'll probably leave in the switchable power cut but at least I'll have an option.

Seems like the #102 and #124 would be up my alley. Anyway I should lean as far as one over the other? They don't look like they're too far apart from one another...

Cool Thanks that helps a lot!
Ok so a few things come to mind right away here. In general the ODS is a versatile amp so the Devil here is really in the details so I'll give you my opinion on the differences and if you have any more questions feel free.
You have the Classic and the Skyliner. Skyliners setups have more mids (500Hz) unlike a Classic which is more scooped and more like a Fender AB765.. The low plates are great in clean mode with singles,very Fender Twin-ish with that top end sparkle. The High plates don't have that they have a slightly flatter thicker and darker (on the top) tone to them,however there are ways to help this . The Overdrive sound you are describing is a High plate setup with Single coils. Thick smooth and very Sax like. You can kind of get it with a low plate just have to crank the amp.
A lot of builders I know complain that there low plates in OD are a bit thin and can have a tendency to be buzzy on high gain settings with single coils unless you can really crank the amp up so the output section can compensate and help fatten the sound.. It's basically a compromise. So if you spend most of your time in clean mode and plan to use your pedals and are light on the gain settings in OD I would go with a low plate in either a Skyliner or a Classic depending on how scooped you want the amp..

So there is the basic difference between a Low Plate Classic/#124/102.
Consider this. 102 is an easier build and not as finicky as a low plate,however if you really want the Fender top end on the clean channel along with your pedals and plan to only use the OD gain lightly then the Low Plate Classic or 124 (in that order) is what I would recommend. You can find all 3 of these layouts in the files section


(If you do decide to go with a 102 (Fave Tele amp)I recommend using a Polystyrene mid cap to help brighten the high plate sound along with a ceramic treble cap and also do the deep switch for more of the Fender scoped sound if you need it would be IMO better than the mid boost feature for you..


I hope this helps!!!

Tony

[Lothy]

Ah thanks guys! Appreciate all the help I've gotten already.

I'm going to start sourcing some stuff and hopefully there will be a build thread to follow. This guy is definitely going to push me but I'm excited for the challenge.

I may ask some circuit questions along the way as well - I try to understand what the circuit is doing as I'm building it. Super excited!

I've a collection of a lot of stuff done in my drop box.
There is a picture gallery of my building process (imcomplete for sure...), and a folder with all the #124 related stuff.
Have a look at this https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 72#p415472. There you'll find a link to it.

Have fun, and no smoke!

Cheers
Gerhard

[Lothy]

one more thing about the 100 vs. 50 watt topic:

This amp is designed to sound good in every volume setting. I use it at very low settings (under 1) and it sounds phantastic. There is no need for a half-power switch. The only reason might be, to save some money on tubes and transformers and to have more room for wireing mess .

My advice: Go for 100, you will appreciate the extra headroom for the right snap on a Tele bridge pickup (if you have one).

Cheers
Gerhard

[norburybrook]

I don't think you'd get a better answer to your question anywhere else on the internet

I'll always be indebted to the folks on this forum for making it possible to build the amps I have.


Having built quite a few ODS amps now I'll just add to what's been said by saying the adjustable FET boost in the files section is something I really have found useful.

you're adding one extra relay and swapping the trim pot with a pot that sits in the FET input jack. This gives you a wonderful adjustable, switchable clean boost. Makes single coils really chime.

It's NOT how Dumble did it but it's the one thing I now do with all my ODS builds. YMMV

M

[PicknStrum]

I'm so excited about this build, I was up at 6 am checking over the thread. I've thought through everything and paid particular attention to Tony's posts describing the nuances of each type I have an interest in.

With that said, I'm thinking of going #102 (hi-plate non-HRM if I'm understanding correctly). The main reason being the sax-like drive - I have Fender amps that do the Fender scooped cleans with warm low end and top end sparkle. Although I think of a Twin Reverb as the best cleans, I'm not picky when it comes to dialing in some nice cleans; I like a variety. What I really want from this build is that Dumble drive.

I feel silly now that so many of you guys have linked threads to #124 builds and I'm switching it up on you. I'm still going to read up on those builds and I thank you all for linking them here.

If anyone has any links for #102 threads that I should check out, please feel free to post them. I'm going to use the #102 Robben Ford Hiplate Skyline layout in the files section.

One final note on the 50/100 watt switch. I do have one other practical reason for including it, even if I never use it. I'm planning on picking up a weber mass lite rated for amps up to 60 watts. I'd like to have the option of cranking the amp up even if it's at half-power. I totally appreciate that the amp sounds best at 100 watts and that the switch is mostly useless. Guess I could consider getting an attenuator rated for higher power but I've kind of had my sets set on a mass lite for some reason.

*I'm currently trying to locate a BOM list on the #102 right now - if anyone has any links, it would be appreciated. I'm currently using the search function on the forum. If there isn't one readily available, I'll try and make one starting from the #124 BOM and post it after you guys check it out. That could be a small contribution after everything you guys have already helped me with.

[talbany]

I'm so excited about this build, I was up at 6 am checking over the thread. I've thought through everything and paid particular attention to Tony's posts describing the nuances of each type I have an interest in.

With that said, I'm thinking of going #102 (hi-plate non-HRM if I'm understanding correctly). The main reason being the sax-like drive - I have Fender amps that do the Fender scooped cleans with warm low end and top end sparkle. Although I think of a Twin Reverb as the best cleans, I'm not picky when it comes to dialing in some nice cleans; I like a variety. What I really want from this build is that Dumble drive.

I feel silly now that so many of you guys have linked threads to #124 builds and I'm switching it up on you. I'm still going to read up on those builds and I thank you all for linking them here.

If anyone has any links for #102 threads that I should check out, please feel free to post them. I'm going to use the #102 Robben Ford Hiplate Skyline layout in the files section.

One final note on the 50/100 watt switch. I do have one other practical reason for including it, even if I never use it. I'm planning on picking up a weber mass lite rated for amps up to 60 watts. I'd like to have the option of cranking the amp up even if it's at half-power. I totally appreciate that the amp sounds best at 100 watts and that the switch is mostly useless. Guess I could consider getting an attenuator rated for higher power but I've kind of had my sets set on a mass lite for some reason.

*I'm currently trying to locate a BOM list on the #102 right now - if anyone has any links, it would be appreciated. I'm currently using the search function on the forum. If there isn't one readily available, I'll try and make one starting from the #124 BOM and post it after you guys check it out. That could be a small contribution after everything you guys have already helped me with.

Good choice
Can't go wrong with a 102. The Skyliner stack will take a bit of getting used to, It's open mids and clear string definition might be a little strange at first and will show all your flaws however after you get used to it and lighten up it's a joy to play,so give it some time. The High plate Skyliner out of all the ODS variations has my favorite OD sound (like an old tweed dimmed) with just about any guitar at fairly light volumes. You can try a 715/716 Orange drop for a mid cap. (I call it the Silver Mica of mid caps ) to help balance and brighten up the high plate sound. This is what the original has. Just a suggestion.

BTW. Marcus's FET option (on a footswitch) is a great addition I have it on 2 of my amps and also recommend it highly on a 102..

Enjoy the build!

Tony

[drew]

BTW. Marcus's FET option (on a footswitch) is a great addition I have it on 2 of my amps and also recommend it highly on a 102..

Oh, look:

https://www.guitarworld.com/news/vht-re ... und-better

[norburybrook]

BTW. Marcus's FET option (on a footswitch) is a great addition I have it on 2 of my amps and also recommend it highly on a 102..

Oh, look:

https://www.guitarworld.com/news/vht-re ... und-better

LOL, just had a look and it's not the same as the Dumble FET boost as it uses a different IC and perhaps not the same voltage.

Good idea though and for the same reasons we spoke of.

M

[martin manning]

LOL, just had a look and it's not the same as the Dumble FET boost as it uses a different IC and perhaps not the same voltage.

Looks like the D FET boost to me, it just has an extra circuit to boost the Vdd up to 18V from the 9V battery.

[dbharris]

Yeah, looks like a charge pump similar to what you would see on a Klon or Katana. Probably putting out 16.5 or so volts. Metal oxide resistors in a pedal is sort of interesting....still more honest advertising than that vertex garbage.

-Dan

[talbany]

BTW. Marcus's FET option (on a footswitch) is a great addition I have it on 2 of my amps and also recommend it highly on a 102..

Oh, look:

https://www.guitarworld.com/news/vht-re ... und-better

The only market more saturated than the guitar amp market is?
Pedal Market..

Tony

[norburybrook]

LOL, just had a look and it's not the same as the Dumble FET boost as it uses a different IC and perhaps not the same voltage.

Looks like the D FET boost to me, it just has an extra circuit to boost the Vdd up to 18V from the 9V battery.

yes, you're correct. It was late and I didn't see the FET so thought the charge pump was an IC instead of the FET.

I agree about the honest marketing though compared to Vertex. I will say the vertex boost with the volume control done by an expression pedal is very good though and probably one of the best volume pedals out there regrading keeping tone.



M