added a clip of my HRM after some tweaks...

[Tonegeek]

I put the drive level usually at 8 or 9. I seem to get best results with my nonHRM and the new HRM in that way. The drive will be anywhere between 5 to 9 Yes, You are right the d-lator knobs affects a great deal to the sound also. Do You try to put them at unity gain or boost the signal a bit ?

IS that 8-9 oclock? if so what clock setting would be OFF for your controls?

Just for reference, my control knobs are installed so that 6 oclock is off. I normally run drive at about 9 oclock and level at about 12 oclock. I have run drive up to 12oclock if I really want a lot of clipping for certain applications. The gain settings before the drive control (input device, vol., OD trim,) will determine how high the drive control gets set. With the Strat, I run my vol at about 1 oclock and my trim almost all the way up. The dlator I set to put as hot a signal as the GT-3 will take without clipping, but sometimes I back it down a bit because the Send control ends up being sort of a master volume. other times I will use the return control as the master. Just depends on the sound I want. Overall though I would say it is less than unity gain. If I switch the d'lator out of circuit, I have to back down the OD lev. to compensate or it will be too loud. It just works out that way for the sound I like. Lots of room to experiment here.

Thanks for the dry clip also. I like it alot! Do You have a HB guitar ? I was a strat/tele/singlecoil -only fan for a long time but the dumbles turned me to HB guitars. I still love the sound of strat to dumble tho', it is just different thing than HB+dumble style amp.

Yea, I am going to try HB's soon although I will always keep exploring with SC guitars. i feel like if an amp can sound good with a stock Strat, it will sound good with about anything.
To that end, I ordered a Reverend RoundHouse HB last month and it should be here in the next few weeks. I just feel like my amp wants humbuckers so I will explore that a bit. I am not done tweaking this amp for my Strat though (is anyone done tweaking?) I feel like it could use about 2-3 db of boost centered on 1.25K when playing leads. Also, I am thinking about re-connecting my choke. When i play double-stops it is getting some "beating" going on. Not sure what is causing this, but my Twin and even my Tone King did the same thing, though to a lesser extent. I think I just need a little more filtering although It may result in some loss of that nice compression you get without the choke.

My dream (after I get my HRM ready) is to have a switch in the HRM to choose between optimal SC sound and optimal HB sound. More switches....

Now that I have a HB guitar on the way, I am having the same thoughts!

[mat]

IS that 8-9 oclock? if so what clock setting would be OFF for your controls?

No, sorry, I meant the numbering on the face plate.

Just for reference, my control knobs are installed so that 6 oclock is off. I normally run drive at about 9 oclock and level at about 12 oclock. I have run drive up to 12oclock if I really want a lot of clipping for certain applications. The gain settings before the drive control (input device, vol., OD trim,) will determine how high the drive control gets set. With the Strat, I run my vol at about 1 oclock and my trim almost all the way up. The dlator I set to put as hot a signal as the GT-3 will take without clipping, but sometimes I back it down a bit because the Send control ends up being sort of a master volume. other times I will use the return control as the master. Just depends on the sound I want. Overall though I would say it is less than unity gain. If I switch the d'lator out of circuit, I have to back down the OD lev. to compensate or it will be too loud. It just works out that way for the sound I like. Lots of room to experiment here.

Interesting, I'll have to experiment more with the send and return pots.

Yea, I am going to try HB's soon although I will always keep exploring with SC guitars. i feel like if an amp can sound good with a stock Strat, it will sound good with about anything.

After finding a soldering bug on my HRM I tried my strat and tele today but they did not work as I would like them to work. Best it was with the tele bridge PU.

To that end, I ordered a Reverend RoundHouse HB last month and it should be here in the next few weeks. I just feel like my amp wants humbuckers so I will explore that a bit.

I'm sure You'll like it with HB's

I am not done tweaking this amp for my Strat though (is anyone done tweaking?) I feel like it could use about 2-3 db of boost centered on 1.25K when playing leads. Also, I am thinking about re-connecting my choke. When i play double-stops it is getting some "beating" going on. Not sure what is causing this, but my Twin and even my Tone King did the same thing, though to a lesser extent. I think I just need a little more filtering although It may result in some loss of that nice compression you get without the choke.

Maybe we should ask dogears when the tweaking ends I have on my nonHRM a stadby switch that chooses between choke and resistor. Will do the same for the HRM (I cant deside which is better )

Thanks for Your thoughts,

[Tonegeek]

OK, I wasn't really ready to go here until my new guitar arrives, but...

I just listened to http://www.freewebs.com/tonegeek/v10PABbridgenoFX.mp3
being dry does help when critiquing an amp and I'm thinking the amp, although it sounds really good; may not have enough clean overtones. I'm of the opinion that the key to a "grail" OD sound for HRM and non-HRM alike is in the overtones that should be present in the clean sound. If you feel like experimenting try less filtering on the PS rail. If you're using Orange drops in the clean section try Xicon 630v MPPs. Other things (as stated several times before) Vishay/Dale RD series plate resistors and metal oxide Cathode resistors. Some say the signal path resistors should be all carbon types. Ceramic disc caps for the pf values (NO MICA). etc. Once you get the clean sound to have overtones like a bell, the OD has a lot more to work with and hopefully the one signature Dumble sound that no other amp can duplicate comes through.

I agree that the sound could be better - or at least more Dumble like. My amp was initially built with the recommended values and types as you mentioned above. I use PS series Spragues mostly, Vishay/Dale, metal film (not metal oxide) on cathodes, etc. I have been tweaking this amp since February using many suggestions from this forum and when I got it as good as I could, but wanting more, I started using some suggestions given to me in confidence (thanks guys, you know who you are ). Anything I do to it from this point is going to be hit or miss. Frankly I am wondering now how much my Mex Strat has to do with it and the speakers/speaker box. I am holding off on doing any more component changes until my Reverend arrives as I am feeling like the amp is going to respond much better with HB pickups. Also, I don't have a good reference point for what this amp should sound like with a Strat. I only have you guys comments to go by, which is one reason I want a more scientific approach as I mentioned earlier, just so we are comparing apples to apples. The fat sound I expect out of this amp is mostly imprinted on my brain by players using HB equipped instruments. I get very excited when I do get a good sound (hence the post of my latest clip) because the good sounds don't come easy. Believe me, I would love to get what I consider a killer tone all the time, without any pedals. I am all ears for any of you guys that have actually built an HRM that sounds great (not just good - I have that) with a Strat. (Groovetubin - I know you have done it your own way -OMG your amps sound killer with my Strat!, but just hang back - I want to see what these other guys have to say)
Thanks for the comment.

Oh yea, you armchair critics, (Sven, Strat57) get off your asses and start building an amp! What are you waiting for?
whit

[Bob-I]

Frankly I am wondering now how much my Mex Strat has to do with it and the speakers/speaker box. I am holding off on doing any more component changes until my Reverend arrives as I am feeling like the amp is going to respond much better with HB pickups.

I have 2 TacoCasters also and I agree, your amp will sound amazing with the Rev. IMHO these are simply great guitars, not great guitars for the money, just great guitars. I've never played one yet with a sharp fret edge, or misalignment anywhere, can't say that for Gibson, Gretsch, or even Baker.

[Johnhenry]

Tonegeek,
I've been on stage with the MAN and i'll say you got it nailed pretty close,
Maybe Richard Mullin's might hear the diff ! LOL ! But not my old ear's,
and yes he did use pedal's with the big "D".
I can hear the Steady improvement in tone by listening to all your clip's and i think your almost there, the last clip is very nice !
Johnhenry

[odourboy]

Oh yea, you armchair critics, (Sven, Strat57) get off your asses and start building an amp! What are you waiting for?
whit

Right on Whit!!

And let me congratulate you on that last clip also. IMHO you've got THE sound happening. To me, it's that 'edge' that sounds like a rosin laden bow scraping across the string of a 400 lb violin.

Cheers! OB

(PS - Strats rule! )

[Sven]

Greetings,

The purpose of forums such as this, as I see it, is to discuss technical aspects of various amplifiers and demonstrate sounds of those amplifiers. The purpose is not to demonstrate various sounds, songs, guitar playing techniques and stomb boxes.

In oreder to demonstrate sounds of amplifiers and COMPARE them with others, it is neccessary to establish STANDARDS. One of the ad hoc standards is using Shure SM57 microphone (perhaps the most popular microphone in rock history), which most people have available, and recording the amplifier in question DRY or with some additional room ambience mic.

As for the ¨american lynching mob mentality¨ which people are, oh, so familiar and disgusted with all over the wolrd (not so visible in the USA, where I spent two decades as a professional sound engineer and met some nice people on the West Coast USA), that mentality of spoiled brats who go on indiscriminate, vulgar insulting rampage against people whose opinions differ from their own (such as my opinion differs about the standards of ¨equal conditions comparison technique¨ in judging amp sounds) -- I regret to notice it on this forum.

I have tweaked and recorded more amplifiers, you know, you spoiled brats, than you have ever seen in your entire life ...

I hold a degree in Electrical Engineering and have spent years in top recording studios with credentials you are not worthy even of hearing ...

As for building and ¨tweaking¨ audio equipment of all sorts, I shall not mention my own credits, but I shall merely state that my studio maintenance engineer (in other words, person I have learned from) for many years durng the 1980's was none else than Greg Mackie, whom you perhaps have heard about related to his company ¨Mackie Designs¨.

I have no other comment left for the people who have attempted to insult me for my fair request, than: GROW UP and stand up to debate, without restoring to insults and ¨spoiled brat American syndrome¨!

This comment relates to the above one or two posts ...

To others that have nothing to do with this my sympathies. Fortunately, I knew some nice American people in the music business, so I shall conclude that my critics do not belong there anyway (they shall never make it there)!

Sven

[heisthl]

Con't we all just get along........I guess a group hug is out of the question.
In the spirit of a good garage forum, here's my tip of the day:

No one I know of has a small shoulderd washer suitable for mini toggles on the faceplate side. To make your own get some #10 nylon washers at the harware store and use the 1/4" tapered stone that comes with every moto tool I've ever seen to ream out the inside. No more nut sctraches on the front panels.

[moonrock]

Tonegeek -
Regarding your Mex Strat. I have a G&L S-500 strat. Never really liked the tone. I read about Lollar PUs in Tonequest magazine. Ordered a set of the Blackface model from Lollar and was blown away. Everyone that hears and plays it now is impressed. I was amazed the difference. Now I have a great playing guitar that sounds good too. Just a thought.
Bruce

[strat57]

Oh yea, you armchair critics, (Sven, Strat57) get off your asses and start building an amp! What are you waiting for?
whit

Obviously based on your smile face emoticon I'll take it your just "razzing" us. But to dispel any belief that I'm just an "armchair" critic..... I just received my D-Lite 22 kit and will be starting it soon.

While I admit I haven't been sniffing solder fumes for years.... I have been an active professional musician for many years and do consider myself as having a pretty good ear. (One with an open mind attached to the end of my vestibulocochlear nerve)

Besides, the more clips and posts available here that can actually be used for reference only helps us all, from amp building beginners like myself to the seasoned electrical engineer.

Tonegeek..... take a moment to be objective and re-read my posts. I offered more complement and opinion than criticism of your work or clips!

Hopefully I can learn from all who post clips and pic's of their work as well as the suggestions many make regarding particular builds.

Again.... congrats on achieving your goal!


P.S. My D-Lite kit was a gift from my brother to get my feet wet building as opposed to having amps tweaked by others during my quest!

[Tonegeek]

Obviously based on your smile face emoticon I'll take it your just "razzing" us. But to dispel any belief that I'm just an "armchair" critic..... I just received my D-Lite 22 kit and will be starting it soon.

For what its worth - no insults were intended. I actually agree with a lot of what you and Sven both said. Dry clips are necessary. I would like to see even more scientific processes for chasing down that elusive Dumble grail magic. I also think there is value in posting other clips besides dry ones, with the understanding that non-dry clips serve a different purpose. My TS clip was meant more to inspire (even if only to keep me inspired!) but I admit it is not suitable for tweaking purposes. Maybe I should have qualified that up front. Anyway congrats on starting a build. I and other members here will be happy to help out if you need it.
whit

[skyboltone]

Greetings,

The purpose of forums such as this, as I see it, is to discuss technical aspects of various amplifiers and demonstrate sounds of those amplifiers. The purpose is not to demonstrate various sounds, songs, guitar playing techniques and stomb boxes.

In oreder to demonstrate sounds of amplifiers and COMPARE them with others, it is neccessary to establish STANDARDS. One of the ad hoc standards is using Shure SM57 microphone (perhaps the most popular microphone in rock history), which most people have available, and recording the amplifier in question DRY or with some additional room ambience mic.

As for the ¨american lynching mob mentality¨ which people are, oh, so familiar and disgusted with all over the wolrd (not so visible in the USA, where I spent two decades as a professional sound engineer and met some nice people on the West Coast USA), that mentality of spoiled brats who go on indiscriminate, vulgar insulting rampage against people whose opinions differ from their own (such as my opinion differs about the standards of ¨equal conditions comparison technique¨ in judging amp sounds) -- I regret to notice it on this forum.

I have tweaked and recorded more amplifiers, you know, you spoiled brats, than you have ever seen in your entire life ...

I hold a degree in Electrical Engineering and have spent years in top recording studios with credentials you are not worthy even of hearing ...

As for building and ¨tweaking¨ audio equipment of all sorts, I shall not mention my own credits, but I shall merely state that my studio maintenance engineer (in other words, person I have learned from) for many years durng the 1980's was none else than Greg Mackie, whom you perhaps have heard about related to his company ¨Mackie Designs¨.

I have no other comment left for the people who have attempted to insult me for my fair request, than: GROW UP and stand up to debate, without restoring to insults and ¨spoiled brat American syndrome¨!

This comment relates to the above one or two posts ...

To others that have nothing to do with this my sympathies. Fortunately, I knew some nice American people in the music business, so I shall conclude that my critics do not belong there anyway (they shall never make it there)!

Sven

Hey Sven. Nothing of the kind happened here unless it's been deleted since you posted this whine. Take it easy pal. Chill. BTW I have no credentials whatsoever. I wear hearing aids, play guitar so poorly it's embarrassing don't drink smoke or swear, (well hardly) and don't have any tattoos. I like the clips on here to be dry when asking for advice and tweeks. It really doesn't make sense otherwise. But if somebody wants to post a clip with everything thrown in let's grow up a little and go with the flow. Most Europeans I've met are cork sniffing egocentric snobs with a stick up their ass in my opinion but you won't hear me posting about it just because they disagree with me. Oh, and install a spell checker on your machine. Google's tool bar has an excellent one.

[Sven]

Well, some people just cannot resist, can they?

No, I shall NOT install spell checker on my computer. English is merely one of the languages I speak (when I was 20 I used to speak about half dozen laguages, some of which I kinda forgot ...), and, anyone who checks out this and many other forums, could only hope that most Americans could spell and communicate in their native language as well as I can!

But, what am I writing about here ...

I use this opportunity to thank other participants for nice gestures and words.

The comment about Europeans, is self-explanatory. Europeans can defend themselves, they do not need my assistance.

But, just for the sake of argument -- regardless of whoever made the comparison between Europeans and Americans -- interested Americans should go see European movies, European TV series, Europena TV shows, and such ... from ALL around Europe (ANY country, really) and compare them to American (I lived in the USA during two decades, West Coast).

What is the first (painful) impression? The impression is that American movies and shows are LOADED with arrogant, vulgar, ¨four letter word¨ saturated, primitive, ... language! European movies, TV shows, and such ... have NONE of that.

Actually, when they make subtitles to American movies over here, translators AVOID translating vulgar language and four letter words, in order to spare the audience from that cultural savagery and polution!

For other participants in this forum: This started when I merely suggested to a fellow participant on this forum, that he should not record his amp with pedals, effects, etc. ... so that people could hear the true sound of the amp, since this forum is about building amps and listening how the amps, not the pedals and guitars, sound, based on well established criteria of Shure SM57 mic recording the sound while placed several inches away from the speaker. My polite suggestion and call for ¨standards¨, was thrown away with arrogance ...

I thought that this subject was dealt with, finished, a week or so ago, but, ... someone wanted to have ¨the final word¨ on it ... and lecture me about ¨spelling¨, ¨European culture¨, ... and so on and so forth ...

It is so pathetic that Americans who in so many cases demonstrate poor spelling skills of their own English language (the only language they speak), lecture people who speak and write in other languages, as well as in English, about spelling of words in English. Pathetic, indeed.


All the best,

Sven

[dogears]

Hi Sven,

While I totally agree with you that I prefer to hear clips that don't use an OD pedal, I think the problem is the way you requested.

The OP offered a clip up that he obviously was proud of, where he for better or worse exposes his playing for us. (Good IMO) You kind of beat him down. Maybe had you complimented him and then politely requested a dry clip, things would be different. Your tone was quite combative from the start. Just my 2c.

Once again, I do agree with you fwiw. I always like to hear just the amp OD. Furthermore, I have never felt the need to use and OD or boost of any kind in front of any of my amps, including HRM.

[Allynmey]

Tonegeek, that sounded great!