Healthcare

[Deric]

Premiums will go up - no doubt about it. Will they go up because of the Bill? Maybe. Would they have gone up without it? Absolutely!

I saw some politician on TV a while back insisting that, if this bill passed, insurance premiums would double in the next 10 years. With no bill, my premiums doubled in 1 year. At this point, if they could guarantee that my premiums would only double every 10 years I'd be happy!!!

But then again, if a politician guarantees you anything - they're probably lying.

Time to work on an amp!!!! Cheers!

[rfgordon]

Unfortunately, most people are grossly misinformed about the contents of this bill.

The fine for failing to buy insurance is unconstitutional, as it constitutes a poll tax--that is a tax to be paid just for being a citizen or resident alien. It is the ultimate regressive tax, since it is not means-based.

There are 19 new taxes and at least 7 tax increases. For example, beginning in 2018 employer contributions to health insurance premiums greater than $10,400.00 are taxed at a rate of 40%. My employer's share currently, for 2010, is $9777.00. By 2018 it will be higher, so I'll get hit with a regressive tax that will have the net effect of increasing my health insurance cost by over $4000! Why, so some crackhead can have a $20 copay?

But guess what, if you're a member of the SEIU, one of Obama's biggest contributors, you get a pass on that premium tax.

The legislation severely alters the way insurers can construct risk pools and exclude some people from coverage (the vaunted "pre-existing conditions" clause). This means that the premiums across the board have to go up in order to fund the people who will drain the system.

You might think it a noble thing to eliminate all pre-existing conditions, but it's just not feasible, nor is it fair. If you give yourself AIDS from sex or drug use, why should I underwrite your increased risk? You give yourself lung cancer from smoking and I'm supposed to pay?

You say the state would pay part of the premiums? Where do you think the money comes from? Taxpayers like me who bear the brunt of these crippling socialist policies.

Just wait till the new "immigration reform" bill passes, and almost 20 million illegal aliens are granted amnesty/citizenship and go on the public teat instantly. Where's the CBO score on that math, Ms. Pelosi?

If you take any prescription meds, their cost will go up next year, due to a new tax. The supplies your doctor uses are taxed under this bill.

The other thing this bill fails to do is go after large employers that game the current system. Go to your local WalMart. Of the dozens of employees working there, find out how many, for the purposes of insurance coverage, are classified as "full time." Less than 10% of the workforce of any major retail chain is classified full time--WalMart, Kmart, Lowes, Home Depot, you name it. When most employees hit 39 hours, they are sent home. That's the way it was when I worked at Lowes in 2001.

The bill also fails to rescind the anti-trust exemption for health insurers. You know all the Obama/Reid/Pelosi blah blah about how bad the insurance companies are? Guess whose lobbyists kept that provision out of the bill?

Sorry for the rant, but it chaps my ass to see people offering opinions when they haven't read the bill.

[brewdude]

I believe that we would ALL be better off if there was NO insurance of any kind.

Insurance is evil by nature. It is betting that you are going to lose. The insurance companies are much like casinos, only they are better at it. Remember, the house ALWAYS wins. Furthermore, insurance companies are not in the business of paying claims, they are in the business of collecting premiums. That is the bottom line.

Society would be better off if we took responsibility for ourselves and our actions. I know sickness and disease are not necessarily a result of our actions, but if there was no medical insurance, medical services would be reasonably priced and negotiated as necessary.

Sorry about the rant.

[Chad]

Unfortunately, most people are grossly misinformed about the contents of this bill.

The fine for failing to buy insurance is unconstitutional, as it constitutes a poll tax--that is a tax to be paid just for being a citizen or resident alien. It is the ultimate regressive tax, since it is not means-based.

There are 19 new taxes and at least 7 tax increases. For example, beginning in 2018 employer contributions to health insurance premiums greater than $10,400.00 are taxed at a rate of 40%. My employer's share currently, for 2010, is $9777.00. By 2018 it will be higher, so I'll get hit with a regressive tax that will have the net effect of increasing my health insurance cost by over $4000! Why, so some crackhead can have a $20 copay?

But guess what, if you're a member of the SEIU, one of Obama's biggest contributors, you get a pass on that premium tax.

The legislation severely alters the way insurers can construct risk pools and exclude some people from coverage (the vaunted "pre-existing conditions" clause). This means that the premiums across the board have to go up in order to fund the people who will drain the system.

You might think it a noble thing to eliminate all pre-existing conditions, but it's just not feasible, nor is it fair. If you give yourself AIDS from sex or drug use, why should I underwrite your increased risk? You give yourself lung cancer from smoking and I'm supposed to pay?

You say the state would pay part of the premiums? Where do you think the money comes from? Taxpayers like me who bear the brunt of these crippling socialist policies.

Just wait till the new "immigration reform" bill passes, and almost 20 million illegal aliens are granted amnesty/citizenship and go on the public teat instantly. Where's the CBO score on that math, Ms. Pelosi?

If you take any prescription meds, their cost will go up next year, due to a new tax. The supplies your doctor uses are taxed under this bill.

The other thing this bill fails to do is go after large employers that game the current system. Go to your local WalMart. Of the dozens of employees working there, find out how many, for the purposes of insurance coverage, are classified as "full time." Less than 10% of the workforce of any major retail chain is classified full time--WalMart, Kmart, Lowes, Home Depot, you name it. When most employees hit 39 hours, they are sent home. That's the way it was when I worked at Lowes in 2001.

The bill also fails to rescind the anti-trust exemption for health insurers. You know all the Obama/Reid/Pelosi blah blah about how bad the insurance companies are? Guess whose lobbyists kept that provision out of the bill?

Sorry for the rant, but it chaps my ass to see people offering opinions when they haven't read the bill.

Thanks for the insite Rich. Wish I could convay my thoughts from pen to paper (In this case keys to computer) like you. I myself have put much effort in trying to read into this health bill and have come to much the same conclusion as you,but could not begin to put it like you have. Thank you Rich.I hope more will check out what is deeper in this so called Heath Reform Bill. Chad

[mac0611]

Unfortunately, most people are grossly misinformed about the contents of this bill.

The fine for failing to buy insurance is unconstitutional, as it constitutes a poll tax--that is a tax to be paid just for being a citizen or resident alien. It is the ultimate regressive tax, since it is not means-based.

There are 19 new taxes and at least 7 tax increases. For example, beginning in 2018 employer contributions to health insurance premiums greater than $10,400.00 are taxed at a rate of 40%. My employer's share currently, for 2010, is $9777.00. By 2018 it will be higher, so I'll get hit with a regressive tax that will have the net effect of increasing my health insurance cost by over $4000! Why, so some crackhead can have a $20 copay?

But guess what, if you're a member of the SEIU, one of Obama's biggest contributors, you get a pass on that premium tax.

The legislation severely alters the way insurers can construct risk pools and exclude some people from coverage (the vaunted "pre-existing conditions" clause). This means that the premiums across the board have to go up in order to fund the people who will drain the system.

You might think it a noble thing to eliminate all pre-existing conditions, but it's just not feasible, nor is it fair. If you give yourself AIDS from sex or drug use, why should I underwrite your increased risk? You give yourself lung cancer from smoking and I'm supposed to pay?

You say the state would pay part of the premiums? Where do you think the money comes from? Taxpayers like me who bear the brunt of these crippling socialist policies.

Just wait till the new "immigration reform" bill passes, and almost 20 million illegal aliens are granted amnesty/citizenship and go on the public teat instantly. Where's the CBO score on that math, Ms. Pelosi?

If you take any prescription meds, their cost will go up next year, due to a new tax. The supplies your doctor uses are taxed under this bill.

The other thing this bill fails to do is go after large employers that game the current system. Go to your local WalMart. Of the dozens of employees working there, find out how many, for the purposes of insurance coverage, are classified as "full time." Less than 10% of the workforce of any major retail chain is classified full time--WalMart, Kmart, Lowes, Home Depot, you name it. When most employees hit 39 hours, they are sent home. That's the way it was when I worked at Lowes in 2001.

The bill also fails to rescind the anti-trust exemption for health insurers. You know all the Obama/Reid/Pelosi blah blah about how bad the insurance companies are? Guess whose lobbyists kept that provision out of the bill?

Sorry for the rant, but it chaps my ass to see people offering opinions when they haven't read the bill.

Paying for the Plan:

Medicare Payroll tax on investment income -- Starting in 2012, the Medicare Payroll Tax will be expanded to include unearned income. That will be a 3.8 percent tax on investment income for families making more than $250,000 per year ($200,000 for individuals).
Excise Tax -- Beginning in 2018, insurance companies will pay a 40 percent excise tax on so-called "Cadillac" high-end insurance plans worth over $27,500 for families ($10,200 for individuals). Dental and vision plans are exempt and will not be counted in the total cost of a family's plan.
Tanning Tax -- 10 percent excise tax on indoor tanning services.

this is straight out of the bill. I have excellent family coverage and it costs 14,000 a year. Nowhere near the cap. These costs are per family or per person, or did you hastily read it wrong in your blind judgemental wrath of those less fortunate than you. The tax is on cadillac plans, you know, like the ones the rich and their blind chattel get. The ones where some cougar can get a new set of tits from Aetna, while a guy with parkinson's disease is denied coverage for a pre-existing condition.

This bill is about what is right for all americans. We are looked upon by the world in high regard for our compassion toward human beings.

The thing that gets me concerned is the total lack of empathy for those that are less fortunate. there was some downright hatred in the crowds at the capitol building. It almost reminded me of the SA rallies in the late '30's in Germany. Only that time the "crackheads" were jews, and rush limbaugh was josef geobbels. We are indeed headed in a dark direction if this selfish lack of civics prevails.

To add, I'll be taxed because I'm over the 250,000 threshold. So I have a presumable right to bitch. However, I choose not to bully and berate those less fortunate than me.

[rfgordon]

The family vs individual threshold for the "Cadillac Plans" is disengenuous, since the tax is based on the premium paid for the eligible policy holder. That's an individual, like me, who buys self & family insurance coverage. The tax is regressive because health insurance is sold as a retail product. That means that two people who work for the same employer pay the same employee's share and have the same employer's share, even though they may have radically different salaries.

Keep in mind that the provisions of the bill must still be translated into the tax code, so there may be significant morphing yet.

Health insurance is not a right, it is a product to be purchased.

If you really wanted to help people, you'd advocate insurance competition across state lines. If the health insurance industry operated on the same business model as auto insurance, we could assemble individualized policies based on our needs. That would drive costs down dramatically.

More taxes and more government control have never improved an economy. The USA has the closest thing to a true free market in the developed world--we generate more wealth than any other country. As a result, we are the most generous people in the world. For example, private donations to the Tsunami aid from Americans was over $8 Billion. That's more than any other nation's contribution, private or government.

If this bill was so great, why the sham politics to pass it? And what, exactly, does student loans have to do with health care, and why was the socialization of them tacked on to this bill at the last minute?

Al Sharpton clarified things very well this week when he said, "Americans voted for socialism when they voted for Obama."

Well, this American didn't.

[mlp-mx6]

This bill is about what is right for all americans. We are looked upon by the world in high regard for our compassion toward human beings.

The thing that gets me concerned is the total lack of empathy for those that are less fortunate. there was some downright hatred in the crowds at the capitol building. It almost reminded me of the SA rallies in the late '30's in Germany. Only that time the "crackheads" were jews, and rush limbaugh was josef geobbels. We are indeed headed in a dark direction if this selfish lack of civics prevails.

Firstly, we should not base our internal policies on what the rest of the world thinks about us. I truly believe that the American system of government is BETTER than any other country's system. I do not wish to emulate ANY European government - no offense intended. I do not wish to live in any other country, I wish to keep America true to the founders' design. The first rule of being a lifeguard is, "Keep yourself safe. You cannot save anyone else if you are in danger." We must work to preserve the viability of the US economy. Emulating other governments who have put their own economies in danger is not a good plan. No other nation does more for other nations than the US. Take us out of the UN or the IMF and both of those organizations go broke, and quickly. Take our assistance out of Haiti and you have a small percentage of help left. I could go on, but I'm hopeful that you get the point. Let's not lose sight of all that is good and working well.

Second, I would challenge the generalization of "downright hatred" in that it was expressed by a few (stupid) individuals, not by the "crowds". We need to be very careful about what we call "hatred" - make sure it *is* hatred, and not simply passionate disagreement. My impression is that a few idiots who protested in offensive ways were played up by the media, since it makes a better "story" than that it was just a few in the crowd.

Lastly, there is NOTHING that breeds "selfish lack of civics" like dependency on government.

[Andy Le Blanc]

I thought Obama is the first sign that American Apartheid was over, Oh well...

there was a point where the health insurance was takeing so much of my income
there was nothing left over for food. They would suddenly discontinue service
for the exact two hours of a surgical procedure and not inform us, until the collection agency was all over us.
There is a disparity in this country.

Is it morally correct to make a profit on the suffering of others?
Its strange that the christian right would say yes, Your felching for nickels.

You try watching your kid start circling the drain because the PA in the ER
has to be a gate keeper and not a doctor, and won't even get you a strep test.
Or have to wait until your so sick that you they can't turn you away at the ER.
Or have to skip meals so your kids have enough, or else you fall off your meds for lack of cash.

This is a basic no brainer, be a HUMAN, you don't have to oink like a pig at the trough.

There's no jobs, no health care, no retirement, no security, no way rise above the cost of living.
I'd be more worried that if the poor majority of this country that desperately
need this don't get a least a measure of relief, we'll be after you.

Its unbelievable that we are so afraid of ourselves that the political right
will push the issue of states rights under "this" administration as a response
to a basic public health issue, it's insulting, the spit is flying.
After the great calamities of the last century and a half....

[Bear]

I continually impressed that the supposed advocates of free market economics don't see a major win in freeing workers from health servitude to their employers. If workers can move freely to the most economically advantageous jobs without lock-in effects of non-portable benefits, industry and productivity of the entire economy can jump. The model of tying health benefits to a specific employment relationship is the model of GM. Having an alternative to this model is good for the economy.

There is no such thing as a working modern economy without a working modern government. That includes some amount of government intervention to keep the playing field level. Otherwise, we would all be subject to the pernicious effect of monopolies, for starters. The question isn't whether government should be involved in the economy, it's how much it should be involved. Of course, any is too much for most of the right-wing think [sic] tanks. If it's so bad here, I suggest as an alternative the libertarian paradise of Somalia.

[HeeBGB]

I haven't read the bill thoroughly. I see some good things in it but I also see some really messed up things.

At the end of the day I simply see this bill as another way for the government to reach into my pocket. As I see it there is not ONE government run program that is successful and is NOT a drain on the taxpayer due to mis-management and abuse. If the government could get it right I would be all for it but you know they can't.

[Structo]

Yep, the government does a great job of running things.
Just look at:

Social Security
Medicare
Medicaid
US Postal Service
Amtrak

The list goes on.
Not one of those has been in the black for a long time.

This bill is just another excuse in an attempt of controlling people and their lives.

From what I have seen and read, the vast majority of people did want health reform such as across border competition but they also did not want the federal government to step in and run the Health Plan of millions.
My wife works for a major HMO, and they have had things in the works for 10 years in regards to Federal health care.
They were the first to go to all electronic medical charting.

What's next for the government?
Say 10 years from now you call up the local pizza parlor and order a pepperoni pizza and the person taking your order has your medical information on her screen.
She says, well Mr. Jones, your cholesterol is over 300 pts so you should probably order the low fat cheese on that pizza.
Your body mass index (BMI) is rather high as well, maybe you should reconsider ordering something more healthy?
I also see that you suffer from GERD, have you taken your Prilosec today?

Sound far fetched? Just wait and see.......

They can joke all they want about the tea parties and protests, come this November, they may wish they had listened to their constituents.

I for one want less government in my life.

[Andy Le Blanc]

My child has a brain injury and disability.

If it weren't for SSI and medicare we'd be homeless and so far into debt
we'd never see daylight.

If you have always had a measure of economic security
you are totally ignorant of what poverty can mean.

If you have always enjoyed health care you have no understanding of
the reality of desperation.

life is more than just surviving.

[M Fowler]

The VA was the first to go with electronic medical chart and has sold this software to many others including foreign medical services. A positive government program.

I also believe the government employees are going to be the first guinea pigs for the testing of the new healthcare program, rats.

[briane]

Rest assured while it is a noble effort to provide essential services to those who cannot afford them (and in some cases do not want them there are some basic truths.....

1) yo cant gt something for nothing. The cost of insuring will be incurred by the tax payers, ie the middle class.
2) if your part of the 90% with health care, youll see your benefits decrease substantially, and costs rise dramatically. Someones got to pay for the new enrollees.
3) if you have no health coverage now, you will get coverage, albeit likely at the level of other social services experienced by our social states across the pond, ie low quality, long waits, and denial for most coverage.
4) The system will fail. Currently health benefits are negotiated as part of employment, thus this amounts to a wage decrease for all working americans (great, another wage cut....). when the majority of us are on welfare or not paying taxes (were almost there now people!), and we all vote for similar social services, but noone works, who is going to pay for all these programs? CHINA? ha, ha....Its the start of the end, as much as a good intention, but with no resolute realistic plan.

[Colossal]

She says, well Mr. Jones, your cholesterol is over 300 pts so you should probably order the low fat cheese on that pizza.
Your body mass index (BMI) is rather high as well, maybe you should reconsider ordering something more healthy?

Mr. Jones is a prime example of the mean in our country. A large percentage of Americans are overweight and unhealthy with a significant portion of those defined as clinically obese. Suppose Mr. Jones had instead invested a little more time in the gym with his wife each day (passing this habit onto their children) instead of hoisting frozen pizzas and tall boys to his mouth while yelling at ESPN from his easy chair. Mr. Jones could have avoided the triple bypass surgery which got billed to his healthcare insurance. So, for 15 years he lives on borrowed time until one day he's in the back of an ambulance and then hammering the healthcare system with what was otherwise largely preventable. Oh, and Mr. Jones looks old before his time (43 going on 57), has gout and diabetes, and a cabinet full of little yellow bottles in his bathroom. He drinks Mountain Dew when he's thirsty and vegetables are just the garnish on the side of his dish when he goes to Outback twice a week for steak or lobster.

We don't have a healthcare problem in this country: we have an overwhelming demand and a shortage of supply and here lies the root cause of what is driving costs up. Here in Houston, they can't build the downtown medical complex fast enough. Diabetes is on schedule to <i>double</i> in the US by 2020.

Like you guys, I sure don't like the high cost of healthcare, government intervention, and the divot it makes in our paychecks every two weeks. But I take care of myself, eat well, and exercise daily so why should I have to pay the same premium as Mr. Jones? To somehow suggest that there should be a national fitness minimum standard for one's age group and that premiums should be based on how you stack up to it smacks of the requirement for more government regulation which is anathema to most. So, Mr. Jones is free to let himself go and pass the cost on to me by his choices. And the cycle continues.

That said, I'm happy to pay a little more to cover the costs for our veterans and for those who aren't as fortunate as I am (Andy) as that is the right thing to do. Interesting too how my Christian family is so vehemently against providing for those who don't have or can't afford insurance and insist on filling my inbox with ignorant political rants and propaganda on an almost daily basis, but were rarely heard from for the last 8 years when we were busy policing up the eastern world to the cost of 1 trillion dollars in national debt and 5,000+ more American lives. Strange irony there.