lead with Gil's OD entrance mod, an update...

[massygt6]

This morning I decided to take a general review on the amp circuit and tweaked some values...
Here' a recording of a "santana style" lead...
http://media.putfile.com/santana-style-lead

I've been quite surprised when I checked the B+ on the power tubes and found about 472volts at full load...
Same thing for V1 and V2 voltages, at 205-210 volts...
Am I a bit on the high side???
I'd like to smooth the sound a little more, and I'm wondering if trying to lower the B+ is a good way to start...
Thanks for the attention!

http://media.putfile.com/lead-with-gils-mod
this is a sample with the "standard" values of the OD entrance Gil's mod...
I like it, more focused lowend and a smoother top end...
thanks Gil!

[glasman]

Probably a bit high on the V1 and V2 side. My target voltages have been dropping over the past year. These days I like the 185 range for V1. Of course your mileage may vary.

This will depend a lot on the tube brands you are using. I had an amp in recently and the customer had purchased some nice NOS bugle boy tubes. That amp was running in the 198 range on V1 (EH 12AX7's), as soon as I dropped in the amperex tubes it dropped to the low 180's

Gary

[heisthl]

Nice clip - I hear a little of the "Ernie Isley" tonality on the low notes which (if you don't like it) can be eliminated with the Gil Ayan entrance mod if you're already using 220k/150k plates in the OD section, if not just going to those might do it.
As far as the voltages go - ditto what Gary said and I would add that the 472 is actually a nice place to be on the output tubes.
Try a couple of different tubes in V1 and if that doesn't do it increase the dropping string resistor to B+4 by 3k or so. (15k to 18k or 22k to 27k etc.)

[bluesfendermanblues]

Nice clip - I hear a little of the "Ernie Isley" tonality on the low notes which (if you don't like it) can be eliminated with the Gil Ayan entrance mod if you're already using 220k/150k plates in the OD section, if not just going to those might do it.
As far as the voltages go - ditto what Gary said and I would add that the 472 is actually a nice place to be on the output tubes.
Try a couple of different tubes in V1 and if that doesn't do it increase the dropping string resistor to B+4 by 3k or so. (15k to 18k or 22k to 27k etc.)

What is the Gil Ayan OD entrance mod? is it the 47nF/10Mohm ?

[heisthl]

affirmative

[dogears]

You could use any size you want. Sometimes a .05uf in series there is all that is needed. I find the .0047 to be way too much bass attenuation. No low end texture, just smooth.

Nice clip - I hear a little of the "Ernie Isley" tonality on the low notes which (if you don't like it) can be eliminated with the Gil Ayan entrance mod if you're already using 220k/150k plates in the OD section, if not just going to those might do it.
As far as the voltages go - ditto what Gary said and I would add that the 472 is actually a nice place to be on the output tubes.
Try a couple of different tubes in V1 and if that doesn't do it increase the dropping string resistor to B+4 by 3k or so. (15k to 18k or 22k to 27k etc.)

What is the Gil Ayan OD entrance mod? is it the 47nF/10Mohm ?

[bluesfendermanblues]

Ok, thanks

[massygt6]

Nice clip - I hear a little of the "Ernie Isley" tonality on the low notes which (if you don't like it) can be eliminated with the Gil Ayan entrance mod if you're already using 220k/150k plates in the OD section, if not just going to those might do it.
As far as the voltages go - ditto what Gary said and I would add that the 472 is actually a nice place to be on the output tubes.
Try a couple of different tubes in V1 and if that doesn't do it increase the dropping string resistor to B+4 by 3k or so. (15k to 18k or 22k to 27k etc.)

thanks gary,heisthl and scott for the tip about Gil's mod...I've already 220k/150K on the plates of the OD section, so I think that the mod is worth a try for sure
Do you have any schematic, topic or example to point me towards?
thanks again...

[ayan]

Nice clip - I hear a little of the "Ernie Isley" tonality on the low notes which (if you don't like it) can be eliminated with the Gil Ayan entrance mod if you're already using 220k/150k plates in the OD section, if not just going to those might do it.
As far as the voltages go - ditto what Gary said and I would add that the 472 is actually a nice place to be on the output tubes.
Try a couple of different tubes in V1 and if that doesn't do it increase the dropping string resistor to B+4 by 3k or so. (15k to 18k or 22k to 27k etc.)

What is the Gil Ayan OD entrance mod? is it the 47nF/10Mohm ?

For what it's worth, "my" mod is .0047uF (4.7 nF) // 4.7Meg. I don't use it in the amp(s) with 100K plate loads, but I did use it in the amps with 220K/150K plate loads. If you play a Strat and or a "phat" humbucker guitar, like a 335, you will probably like it or some variation of it. If not, don't worry about it.

Some of the classic EQ Dumbles used a .01 or .02 uF coupling cap out of V1B. If you have a .047uF cap there, maybe the additional .047uF or .02uF will get you close to where Dumble tuned those amps. Anything lower than that and you will start trading smoothness for a thinner sound. If you play in a small band, don't go overboard by going too low. If you play in a large band or do a lot of recording in other than a "guitar oriented" situations, the engineers will always lop off the bass for you anyway, so you might as well go with a leaner but smoother sound right out of the gate.

Also, in the amps I had that, I had a Deep switch as well (as opposed to a Mid switch), such that I could always get a bit more low end out of the amp if I needed it. Based upon your sound clips, you may actually benefit from fine tuning that area of the circuit to enhance note definition in the lower register.

Cheers,

Gil

[ayan]

Double post.

[heisthl]

For what it's worth, "my" mod is .0047uF (4.7 nF) // 4.7Meg. I don't use it in the amp(s) with 100K plate loads, but I did use it in the amps with 220K/150K plate loads. If you play a Strat and or a "phat" humbucker guitar, like a 335, you will probably like it or some variation of it. If not, don't worry about it.

Some of the classic EQ Dumbles used a .01 or .02 uF coupling cap out of V1B. If you have a .047uF cap there, maybe the additional .047uF or .02uF will get you close to where Dumble tuned those amps. Anything lower than that and you will start trading smoothness for a thinner sound. If you play in a small band, don't go overboard by going too low. If you play in a large band or do a lot of recording in other than a "guitar oriented" situations, the engineers will always lop off the bass for you anyway, so you might as well go with a leaner but smoother sound right out of the gate.

Also, in the amps I had that, I had a Deep switch as well (as opposed to a Mid switch), such that I could always get a bit more low end out of the amp if I needed it. Based upon your sound clips, you may actually benefit from fine tuning that area of the circuit to enhance note definition in the lower register.

Cheers,

Gil

I stand corrected - I've never tried that - here's what I've tried with good results (although sometimes I use a .02):

[massygt6]

For what it's worth, "my" mod is .0047uF (4.7 nF) // 4.7Meg. I don't use it in the amp(s) with 100K plate loads, but I did use it in the amps with 220K/150K plate loads. If you play a Strat and or a "phat" humbucker guitar, like a 335, you will probably like it or some variation of it. If not, don't worry about it.

Some of the classic EQ Dumbles used a .01 or .02 uF coupling cap out of V1B. If you have a .047uF cap there, maybe the additional .047uF or .02uF will get you close to where Dumble tuned those amps. Anything lower than that and you will start trading smoothness for a thinner sound. If you play in a small band, don't go overboard by going too low. If you play in a large band or do a lot of recording in other than a "guitar oriented" situations, the engineers will always lop off the bass for you anyway, so you might as well go with a leaner but smoother sound right out of the gate.

Also, in the amps I had that, I had a Deep switch as well (as opposed to a Mid switch), such that I could always get a bit more low end out of the amp if I needed it. Based upon your sound clips, you may actually benefit from fine tuning that area of the circuit to enhance note definition in the lower register.

Cheers,

Gil

Thanks for the clarification Gil, I'll try the mod for sure, now the low end is flubby and bouncy with rock mode on and without the mid and pab...nice of you're playing a jazzy solo, but terrible if you need to hit a big chord.

[ic-racer]

Awesome playing, that is some good stuff!

[ayan]

this is a sample with the "standard" values of the OD entrance Gil's mod...
I like it, more focused lowend and a smoother top end...
thanks Gil!

I like it better this way, what can I say? You're welcome and very cool playing, by the way!

Cheers,

Gil

[Tonegeek]

Would love to see a video of that second clip just to learn from your technique. Sounds like some tapping going on there. Very cool. I like the amp tweaks. That's a non-HRM I assume?