Here we go again Low Plate Classic

[Bombacaototal]

Marcus, just out of curiosity, which voltage regulator are you using? With my amps I noticed that +- 4V from the mains will already make a difference on how the amp sounds. I always try to leave them within +- 2V (mains) from where I biased it (and besides the voltage regulator I also have a power conditioner). At home there are swings greater than 8V to 10V depending on the day and the time.

I remember Robben Ford saying that this is probably the only downside of Dumble amps, how sensitive they are to mains voltage (and bias). Around 12:15 here
https://youtu.be/LO-QZNeIBYU

[norburybrook]

I use an APC UPS that filters and regulates. I think Robben is talking about venues across the US with large variations in voltage. 4 or 5 volts @120V is 8 to 10v @240v which I've never seen in the UK . I experienced more variation in voltage when touring the USA than I have in the UK. Anyway were drifting further off topic here.......


M

[pompeiisneaks]

That is outstanding Tony! Love it

~Phil

[talbany]

Thanks everyone and no problem with the de-rail it's all interesting!
I don't know what to tell you Marcus I've never really had an amp sound good one day and bad the next.I agree though with the premise that some rooms can change how your hearing the amp but not to the extent that the sound of the amp has changed that drastically. If I let an amp sit for a long period of time and play another amp,between then my perception of that amp might change a bit which is why I always wait a while to do any mods or changes unless it's really obvious!.

IMO it's always a good idea to share opinions (if you can) on how each player hears a given part. I generally get the part from the other person who recommends it,install the part then compare opinions. If both of us are hearing the same things then I give the part some merit. This way you have at least another set of ears to corroborate the perceived change in sound and the more the better. There has also been times where I try a different part and think it works after the install only to come back days later and decide to go back, this happens all the time and why it's important to change only 1 part at a time and have a sonic destination in mind! (Not I just want it to sound good)
It is true however that the ODS can be at times temperamental in the consistency department when going to the Dumbleator and switching guitars and speakers. Especially with a "Non-Hrm" where you have no tone controls on the OD side your left with the natural sound of each component (and the room) so you are locked in. I suppose in an amp where I had some control over the tone shaping of the OD perhaps the sound of each part of the signal path wouldn't be as critical? But then again the beauty of the ODS is in it's simplicity. It's a never-ending battle
I agree! Your opinion will change when you put it into a band mix vs just sitting with the amp by itself. I generally find if the amp is a bit brighter (and not boomy in the low-end) than I like sitting alone it usually works well in a band mix.other than that it's straight ahead

Tony

[norburybrook]

Thanks everyone and no problem with the de-rail it's all interesting!
I don't know what to tell you Marcus I've never really had an amp sound good one day and bad the next.I agree though with the premise that some rooms can change how your hearing the amp but not to the extent that the sound of the amp has changed that drastically. If I let an amp sit for a long period of time and play another amp,between then my perception of that amp might change a bit which is why I always wait a while to do any mods or changes unless it's really obvious!.

IMO it's always a good idea to share opinions (if you can) on how each player hears a given part. I generally get the part from the other person who recommends it,install the part then compare opinions. If both of us are hearing the same things then I give the part some merit. This way you have at least another set of ears to corroborate the perceived change in sound and the more the better. There has also been times where I try a different part and think it works after the install only to come back days later and decide to go back, this happens all the time and why it's important to change only 1 part at a time and have a sonic destination in mind! (Not I just want it to sound good)
It is true however that the ODS can be at times temperamental in the consistency department when going to the Dumbleator and switching guitars and speakers. Especially with a "Non-Hrm" where you have no tone controls on the OD side your left with the natural sound of each component (and the room) so you are locked in. I suppose in an amp where I had some control over the tone shaping of the OD perhaps the sound of each part of the signal path wouldn't be as critical? But then again the beauty of the ODS is in it's simplicity. It's a never-ending battle
I agree! Your opinion will change when you put it into a band mix vs just sitting with the amp by itself. I generally find if the amp is a bit brighter (and not boomy in the low-end) than I like sitting alone it usually works well in a band mix.other than that it's straight ahead

Tony

Tony, yep I'd agree with all that I'm exaggerating when I say sounded great one day and like sh*t the next, these amps never sound bad really, I suppose I mean the subtle differences from it being great one day and meh the next I'm sure 99% of it is me and my perception and what i want to hear, hence the endless building and tone chasing

Live, every night is completely different though and can be great or horrible depending on room/stage/monitoring.

looking forward to your sound clips. I've still not done my last build either as I've been changing the main audio interface in the studio and rewiring this week. that sounds like a good excuse to demo it

M

[talbany]

Marcus
I agree!! Pretty much during the entire 90's- 2004 I played in a band that worked 4 nights a week year round! We constantly played different rooms. Ritz Carlton's to tiny Biker bars to giant outdoor sheds! I got to where I would have a pretty good idea how the gig was going to go as soon as I walked in the room. There were a few surprises but for the most part went exactly the way I thought walking in. There were many nights that were nothing short of a downright struggle! and some rooms had no business putting live bands in. On quite a few of the smaller clubs we played I did both ran sound and played guitar at the same time.. Never do that again.
I just wish I was building amps back then.

Tony

[rootz]

Very recognisable Tony and Marcus. Voltage is very stable in my house at 226VAC and still the amps I own sound better or worse on varying moments in the same room. I came to the conclusion that it has to be my ears and perception of the sound they make too (yes, another variable). In the morning my ears are much sharper, while during a gig the high end just seems to disappear. Do you guys get that too?

And then the different rooms with gigs! One time I cut right through the mix with the amp, the other night I can't seem to turn up the amp loud enough. Amp always on a stand pointed right at me, always miked with my own stuff, always the same sound engineer and mixing desk, but still too many variables to be completely consistent. The funny thing is, while I might not know how I will sound exactly, people still dance and sing with our bands music and enjoy the show. So at least the public seems some kind of constant factor

[talbany]

Very recognisable Tony and Marcus. Voltage is very stable in my house at 226VAC and still the amps I own sound better or worse on varying moments in the same room. I came to the conclusion that it has to be my ears and perception of the sound they make too (yes, another variable). In the morning my ears are much sharper, while during a gig the high end just seems to disappear. Do you guys get that too?

Yes. Whenever I am around any loud sounds for an extended time I lose some high end and on certain frequencies, my ears will start to ring. If it gets bad enough a headache might ensue. I believe they call it Tinitous

Tony

[talbany]

So here we go Finally got around to ripping one-off. Man, I m out of shape have not played the electric in a while so discard the clams as there are a few! Start with the clean side 52 Reissue stock 50's underwound pickups going into the Dumbleator with a touch of slapback on my LXP-15 Dinasour Later on I'll do one with the Strat and do the PAB. Believe it or not the PAB sound pretty good on this one. I am still contemplating bringing down the V1 bypass caps to 10uF. Dunno
What do you guys think? Too much low end?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q3q8V7l1Wk

Thanks for checkin it out

Tony

[Colossal]

Bad ass, man! Great clarity, and very smooth and balanced too. Love the pop and sparkle of that Tele.

[stelligan]

Spanky. Sounds great!

[rootz]

I think I need to hear more of that amp. Like much more.

Great sounding combo with your tele Tony, Spanky, ballsy and not muddy at all. Really like the bit more bass heavy and scooped cleans you get here.

[Doug R.]

Great job !

[10thTx]

Thanks for sharing! That's a sweet amp!

10thtx

[talbany]

Thanks everyone!
So far from what I've found from the "Classic" is a more scoped sound which puts it more in the Fender territory which tends to work fine on most bridge and middle pickup selections but I miss the articulation and upper mid push on the neck pickups I get with the skyliners. The trick for me has always been to try and keep the amp as bright as possible and not have the top end be harsh with not much in the way of odd order harmonics (especially when you lean into it). The combination I've found is Micas on the master and 220K bypass on V1B and X5F's in the stack and bright switch. (Something about the sound of the silver micas with voltage on them I don't like in these amps ) .. The other thing is when the amp goes in OD side it naturally gets a little darker and thickens up but still stays clear on the top end. You can get it to where the low-end drops off a little in OD but above all it needs to stay tight and not get muddy or flabby. This will of course change depending on how loud you play what types of tubes you use plate voltages etc, treble cap and resistor types has a lot to do with harmonic quality and how the pre-amp breaks-up! IMO.
I also tend to find the amp seems to stay more harmonically consistent when going from Clean to OD when your preamp tubes are well matched. IMO its ok for V1 and V2 are say 10v apart but you generally want the triodes in the same tubes within a few volts otherwise things start to sound weird to me. I generally find the sweet spot on these amps if I gradually increase each gain stage differently. For instance I want the OD trimmer set rather low say around 24/25K and the OD master set high at least over 12 o'clock generally 1 or 2 and sometimes 3 o'clock on a J taper pot. My Drive control never gets past noon an 1 o'clock at most. The Dumbleator also lets me set the Master high and I generally find the master on these amps sound best set around noon or slightly higher on a J taper pot. I also have a couple 220P di-films in this amp. I like to use them in the OD side or PI entrance. Other good advice I can give is to always measure each cap and resistor you put in the amp. Direction of the caps matter and help keep the lows tight and the sound better focused.. I also try to find a bass pot value a little higher say around 300K (#183). This way you have a better chance of ending up with an amp that is well balanced and consistent. Dumble's designs (no matter which I've tried) have literally been perfect for me,so if you end up with something out of balance or something else weird sounding it's because you have something out of tolerance or a part that might be generating to many odd order harmonics etc. That's been what I've found when building these amps. I will do one on my Strat soon. That Tele is at times too spanky but gives you an idea on the amps clarity which is what I wanted to show.

Thanks Again for playing along. If you have any other questions? Let me know

Tony