I've got to admit, I'm having trouble conceiving how to engage PAB on clean, and still have it available for OD as a separate click.
Also, the PAB that I am using is applying resistive grounds to Mid and Bass like this: https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... 9&start=15
Maybe sleep will help.
You would basically make a carbon copy of the switching, and assign it to another switch, for when you didn't want the "lift on clean only". All in all, though, it's getting too complicated for what you want to do, I think. Are you sure the D'lite is your means to an end, or do you think perhaps another circuit may be more suited to you?
I've got to admit, I'm having trouble conceiving how to engage PAB on clean, and still have it available for OD as a separate click.
I did this on a build but the topology was dual MV's and HRM. Thus, enabling a switchable PAB in both modes in which the boost in the OD mode was a simple tonestack lift at the mid pot.
IMHO, accept that D'lite circuit for what it is while realizing what it's not. If it's not working for you then perhaps it time to move on to something different.
One option is to do dual PAB's. Maybe try something like this.
When the DPDT relay is switched to clean (normally open) the SPDT relay is also switched simultaneously to normally open or PAB #1.
When the DPDT relay is switched to OD (normally closed) the SPDT relay is also switched simultaneously to normally closed or PAB #2. PAB #2 then can be engaged or not engaged on OD.
With respect, 10thtx
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And here are several other ideas. The top one simply activates a relay spdt switch and parallels a resistor from wiper to ground on the volume pot.
Essentially what this would do is act as though you have turned the "clean" volume knob way down when you switched to OD. You would measure the resistance to ground in how you like that volume pot set when using OD.
Then you measure where you like the volume knob set playing on clean. Use a parallel resistor on a relay switch to change between the two.
The lower option allows a spdt relay switch to alternate between a pseudo 5E3 tone pot (with lower insertion loss) for your dirtier clean tone and then switches to normal tone stack for clean.
You can either simply use a set resistor value for the mid pot (as drawn) or add a pseudo 5E3 tone switch on the back of the chassis for your clean tone and continue to use the original mid pot on the front of the chassis ....OR put the 5E3 tone pot on front and the midpot on the back.
Lots of options to get you there. Remember NC = normally closed which is what the OD channel relay is (also NC).
With respect, 10thtx
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Last edited by 10thTx on Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My thoughts here are; if you're having to go to all this trouble to get the amp sounding the way you want, I'd suggest it's not the amp for you.
There's nothing wrong with accepting that and moving on to an amp that fit's you and your playing style.
many great guitarists don't like Dumble ODS amps at all.
mike Landau, a guitarist I particularly like hates all master volume amps.
A good friend of mine and stunning pro guitarist has been building Dumble ODS amps for about 5 years now and has built every permutation and in the end he now gigs with a Trainwreck express he built and uses pedals for OD.
Switch the NFB when on the clean channel. Does that give you enough "dirt"?
IF so, then have a relay switched spdt that switches NFB on with OD and off with clean. Easy to do.
You can try this by setting up the OD to sound like you want with the clean volume at whatever setting that is. Then switch to clean without changing the pot settings. Disconnect the NFB and ground there instead. Does that give the clean enough dirt?
Several of these mod ideas are easy to simply try out with alligator clips and a little time before "giving up" on the amp.
Maybe try this NFB switch idea and paralleling a resistor on the volume pot. Both could be tried out in a few minutes with insulated alligator clipped wires if you know how to work on amps safely.
Other then the pseudo 5E3 tone stack idea, I don't see the other ideas being that instrusive and IF they give you the amp tone you want, then maybe these are reasonable considerations?
with respect, 10thtx
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I've got to admit, I'm having trouble conceiving how to engage PAB on clean, and still have it available for OD as a separate click.
I did this on a build but the topology was dual MV's and HRM. Thus, enabling a switchable PAB in both modes in which the boost in the OD mode was a simple tonestack lift at the mid pot.
IMHO, accept that D'lite circuit for what it is while realizing what it's not. If it's not working for you then perhaps it time to move on to something different.
TM
Thanks TM. Maybe this is the case. But, I actually like a lot of things about the amp. the wattage is perfect for smallish gigs (maybe even a little loud). I actually like the clean tone, and the OD tone. I just want my in-betweener sound to be more available, and a balance of appropriate volumes for each.
A couple years ago, I ended up buying (3) of the "JudyBox" combo amp chassis e/w transformers appropriate for (2) 6V6, for cheap. It is the reason I am going (2) 6V6 route for now. I figured this was an inexpensive way to get my hands dirty and learn a little.
You're speaking from a voice with much more experience, and I respect that. Even though I will probably end up conceding to your logic, I am still learning quite a bit tweaking this thing. I don't think I am ready to abandon ship just yet. Thanks for the input though. I have gained a lot already from reading your contributions to this forum.
10thTx wrote:And here are several other ideas. The top one simply activates a relay spdt switch and parallels a resistor from wiper to ground on the volume pot.
Essentially what this would do is act as though you have turned the "clean" volume knob way down when you switched to OD. You would measure the resistance to ground in how you like that volume pot set when using OD.
Then you measure where you like the volume knob set playing on clean. Use a parallel resistor on a relay switch to change between the two.
The lower option allows a spdt relay switch to alternate between a pseudo 5E3 tone pot (with lower insertion loss) for your dirtier clean tone and then switches to normal tone stack for clean.
You can either simply use a set resistor value for the mid pot (as drawn) or add a pseudo 5E3 tone switch on the back of the chassis for your clean tone and continue to use the original mid pot on the front of the chassis ....OR put the 5E3 tone pot on front and the midpot on the back.
Lots of options to get you there. Remember NC = normally closed which is what the OD channel relay is (also NC).
With respect, 10thtx
Wow. Really interesting ideas 10thtx. Thank you. I will study up on these ideas tonight. Thanks again.
norburybrook wrote:My thoughts here are; if you're having to go to all this trouble to get the amp sounding the way you want, I'd suggest it's not the amp for you.
There's nothing wrong with accepting that and moving on to an amp that fit's you and your playing style.
many great guitarists don't like Dumble ODS amps at all.
mike Landau, a guitarist I particularly like hates all master volume amps.
A good friend of mine and stunning pro guitarist has been building Dumble ODS amps for about 5 years now and has built every permutation and in the end he now gigs with a Trainwreck express he built and uses pedals for OD.
Thanks Norburybrook. You may be right. I think the "Asteroid" is going to be my next build.
Dave, from personal experience, I have a 50w #102 and a 100w bluesmaster, neither of them do that crunch , clean/slightly broken up sound well. I've just learned to accept that's the way they are.
I have a JTM45 and a rocket that will do the crunch a lot better
And, they're both a LOT easier and quicker/cheaper to build!!
norburybrook wrote:Dave, from personal experience, I have a 50w #102 and a 100w bluesmaster, neither of them do that crunch , clean/slightly broken up sound well. I've just learned to accept that's the way they are.
I have a JTM45 and a rocket that will do the crunch a lot better
And, they're both a LOT easier and quicker/cheaper to build!!
Marcus
Thanks Marcus. If you don't mind me asking your opinion, between the JTM45 and Rocket, which would you say has mo-betta blues rock tone?
Ok, I admit it. You guys were right. The amp is what it is. Tried a bunch of different dropping resistors for B+5 up to 22K. Nothing sounded as good as 2K2.
So I just dialed in my favorite balance. Which is so specific, it could basically become permanent resistors at this point, Lol.
I just maxed OD level, and balanced input volume and drive to where OD has good tone, and is a little louder than clean. So nothing switched in will = super clean, then, clean with PAB = basic blues tone, etc, etc, up to everything switched on for over the top rock mayhem.
Other than adding the LNFB lift switch (which I like), it looks like this journey just solidified my confidence in the "tweaked" values for D'Lite.
I'm happy with it, now that I found a method to get a linear path to all gain ranges from clean to hard rock.
Now it's time to start work on Martin's D-lator with a twist...
Thanks to everyone for the input. This was a HUGE learning experience for my son and I, and we really appreciate your guy's help.
First one I built was a D'lite, and it kinda turned me off, but it turns out I just didn't really care for high plates or the skyliner stack. Now you can pretty easily try all the other variants in that judybox. The OTs are great in those things! Not to mention the fancy pots.
As far as your 100k OD level/ratio pot goes, check this out: you've got 150k going into 100k pot. If that pot is cranked, you have a 150k/100k divider headed to the MV . So, to keep the loading the same, you could use a 250k linear pot and on ~4 it would be exactly the same as you have it now. The added bonus is that you can now "turn it up more", and get closer to rock city;)
As far as your 100k OD level/ratio pot goes, check this out: you've got 150k going into 100k pot. If that pot is cranked, you have a 150k/100k divider headed to the MV . So, to keep the loading the same, you could use a 250k linear pot and on ~4 it would be exactly the same as you have it now. The added bonus is that you can now "turn it up more", and get closer to rock city;)
Smokebreak wrote:First one I built was a D'lite, and it kinda turned me off, but it turns out I just didn't really care for high plates or the skyliner stack. Now you can pretty easily try all the other variants in that judybox. The OTs are great in those things! Not to mention the fancy pots.
As far as your 100k OD level/ratio pot goes, check this out: you've got 150k going into 100k pot. If that pot is cranked, you have a 150k/100k divider headed to the MV . So, to keep the loading the same, you could use a 250k linear pot and on ~4 it would be exactly the same as you have it now. The added bonus is that you can now "turn it up more", and get closer to rock city;)
Wow. Thank you. That is huge! I will do this tonight.
Smokebreak wrote:First one I built was a D'lite, and it kinda turned me off, but it turns out I just didn't really care for high plates or the skyliner stack. Now you can pretty easily try all the other variants in that judybox. The OTs are great in those things! Not to mention the fancy pots.
As far as your 100k OD level/ratio pot goes, check this out: you've got 150k going into 100k pot. If that pot is cranked, you have a 150k/100k divider headed to the MV . So, to keep the loading the same, you could use a 250k linear pot and on ~4 it would be exactly the same as you have it now. The added bonus is that you can now "turn it up more", and get closer to rock city;)
I use 250k in my three Dumble clones. Works great!
