jcsifu wrote:Well, the clean channel is too clean for my taste. It might be that I am used to the Fender clean from my '67super reverb or vibroking which are WELL broken in and have very broken in speakers as well and have some hair on them.
The note separation is there, even in OD mode, I just don't like the raspy lower tones that I cant seem to get rid of no matter how I set od trim, norm vol, level, etc...this is why I am thinking ht wires or OT. But the clean lows are fine. It just seems like the transition from clean to OD is a large step and I'm not sure how to use that for songs that require both.
I am going to pull the heaters in an hour or so and rewire them high and re-route some of the k p wires and see what happens.
I would really like to know the preamp voltages. If you didn't bother to document preamp voltages as you were rolling tubes, you missed a learning opportunity.
clean-I think you went in the wrong direction with adding the additional capacitance on the front end if you wanted more "hair" on the cleans. Also, the Skyliner tone stack will be unlike a Fender tone stack.
OD/clean balance-this sounds relatively normal with the single global MV.
Filament wiring- clean it up if you wish, IMHO it wont have any tangible bearing on the amp's response.
jcsifu wrote:Well, the clean channel is too clean for my taste. It might be that I am used to the Fender clean from my '67super reverb or vibroking which are WELL broken in and have very broken in speakers as well and have some hair on them.
The note separation is there, even in OD mode, I just don't like the raspy lower tones that I cant seem to get rid of no matter how I set od trim, norm vol, level, etc...this is why I am thinking ht wires or OT. But the clean lows are fine. It just seems like the transition from clean to OD is a large step and I'm not sure how to use that for songs that require both.
I am going to pull the heaters in an hour or so and rewire them high and re-route some of the k p wires and see what happens.
I would really like to know the preamp voltages. If you didn't bother to document preamp voltages as you were rolling tubes, you missed a learning opportunity.
clean-I think you went in the wrong direction with adding the additional capacitance on the front end if you wanted more "hair" on the cleans. Also, the Skyliner tone stack will be unlike a Fender tone stack.
OD/clean balance-this sounds relatively normal with the single global MV.
Filament wiring- clean it up if you wish, IMHO it wont have any tangible bearing on the amp's response.
TM
Hi Merc,
I did not doc the preamp voltages during rolling...I did not think there would be any variance from the initial readings when I first check specs after I bought the amp. If you wouldn't mind giving me a hint as to what a variance in voltage would translate to I would greatly appreciate a learning experience . I've never thought to check this other than for diagnostic reasons for a sick amp. I am very curious now, I will start to try to find some answers so maybe I can be ready to ask an intelligent question about it.
I'm not sure what addition to the front in capacitance you are referring to. If you are thinking of the V1b nfb switch, I liked it with out the cap and that was the hair I got that I was mentioning. Only othe capacitance I added was the extra two 70mf caps I tacked on to the 100mf power caps. They helped to tighten the low end in a noticeable and pleasant way. Which did you mean?
I have to admit I am hoping you are wrong about lead dress not having an impact, I would like for at least a slightly noticeable difference but not expecting large difference.
I should say again that I do like this amp and that I feel I am getting more and more used to setting it up differently. Each time I play around with the knobs I can pick up on something that helps me in achieving a more consistency in my tones. It is def different that anything I have ever played. It does feel familiar to me, my background being mostly fender amps with a marshall or soldono used at times for certain projects. I am mainly just seeing if the closer I follow a specific example (124) I will get an idea of why HAD did things the way he did.
It's enjoyable for me to have this amp hobby as well as just finding a forum in order to talk and listen to other people who love tubes as much as I do.
I look forward to hearing from you.
jcsifu wrote:
Hi Merc,
I did not doc the preamp voltages during rolling...I did not think there would be any variance from the initial readings when I first check specs after I bought the amp. If you wouldn't mind giving me a hint as to what a variance in voltage would translate to I would greatly appreciate a learning experience . I've never thought to check this other than for diagnostic reasons for a sick amp. I am very curious now, I will start to try to find some answers so maybe I can be ready to ask an intelligent question about it.
DMM on 700vAC, black/red lead to each phase. check the voltages. 1. Main line, 2. Transformer secondary, 3. Filament voltage, bias tap.
Then put the dmm on 1000VDC, Black lead on chassis, red lead on components. check the B+ at OT centertap, then at the choke, then across the 3.3k resistor, across the 22k.. then further.. Then the preamp. Check the anode resistors Pin 1/Pin 6 (It should be in the 190, 200 range with V2 slightly higher). Then the respective cathodes.. (should be 1.5/1.6V).
jcsifu wrote:Well, the clean channel is too clean for my taste. It might be that I am used to the Fender clean from my '67super reverb or vibroking which are WELL broken in and have very broken in speakers as well and have some hair on them.
The note separation is there, even in OD mode, I just don't like the raspy lower tones that I cant seem to get rid of no matter how I set od trim, norm vol, level, etc...this is why I am thinking ht wires or OT. But the clean lows are fine. It just seems like the transition from clean to OD is a large step and I'm not sure how to use that for songs that require both.
I am going to pull the heaters in an hour or so and rewire them high and re-route some of the k p wires and see what happens.
I would really like to know the preamp voltages. If you didn't bother to document preamp voltages as you were rolling tubes, you missed a learning opportunity.
clean-I think you went in the wrong direction with adding the additional capacitance on the front end if you wanted more "hair" on the cleans. Also, the Skyliner tone stack will be unlike a Fender tone stack.
OD/clean balance-this sounds relatively normal with the single global MV.
Filament wiring- clean it up if you wish, IMHO it wont have any tangible bearing on the amp's response.
TM
Hi Merc,
I did not doc the preamp voltages during rolling...I did not think there would be any variance from the initial readings when I first check specs after I bought the amp. If you wouldn't mind giving me a hint as to what a variance in voltage would translate to I would greatly appreciate a learning experience . I've never thought to check this other than for diagnostic reasons for a sick amp. I am very curious now, I will start to try to find some answers so maybe I can be ready to ask an intelligent question about it.
I'm not sure what addition to the front in capacitance you are referring to. If you are thinking of the V1b nfb switch, I liked it with out the cap and that was the hair I got that I was mentioning. Only othe capacitance I added was the extra two 70mf caps I tacked on to the 100mf power caps. They helped to tighten the low end in a noticeable and pleasant way. Which did you mean?
I have to admit I am hoping you are wrong about lead dress not having an impact, I would like for at least a slightly noticeable difference but not expecting large difference.
I should say again that I do like this amp and that I feel I am getting more and more used to setting it up differently. Each time I play around with the knobs I can pick up on something that helps me in achieving a more consistency in my tones. It is def different that anything I have ever played. It does feel familiar to me, my background being mostly fender amps with a marshall or soldono used at times for certain projects. I am mainly just seeing if the closer I follow a specific example (124) I will get an idea of why HAD did things the way he did.
It's enjoyable for me to have this amp hobby as well as just finding a forum in order to talk and listen to other people who love tubes as much as I do.
I look forward to hearing from you.
1. Changing preamp tubes, changes preamp voltages. So when swap tubes what exactly are you hearing, the sonic nuances of the tube or the affect of varying voltage?
2. Yes, when you tacked on that extra 70uf. I would have not changed this until I swapped out the OT, personally I would not changed it at all.
3. I did not say general "lead dress", but the filament aka heater wiring affecting the amp response, not it's noise floor.
Kassie wrote:It should be in the 190, 200 range with V2 slightly higher.
That is a baseline sort of; in reality preamp voltages where all over the place, sometimes above 210 and 200V on V2 might not work for every circuit.
TM
Yes, my PT is set for 240. But only seeing 220 from the wall.. 225 with luck. So as a result all the voltages are low... 410 on the plates, and 160/170 around V1. 5.9 on the heaters... it's sounds ok though. Might experiment with lowering the dropping resistors somewhat. I've never measured anything above 230 from the mainline. (mainland Europe).
The new CT OT was dropped of today just minutes ago, but I don't have time before band rehearsal to re-attach and test. This will have to happen next Thursday, my day of availability to work on stuff. Sorry I am dragging this out.
Also;
I ended up taking the two 70mf caps I tagged onto the PS 100mf off. Partly because I had a weird intermittent dropping in volume and wasn't sure if the added voltage/mf was an issue or I moved something around, so I just pulled the chassis to look in. I was under the impression that it was only from the od channel but not sure. before I pulled the chassis I swapped out V2 and had no more drop in volume for a few minutes. Then it occurred again, so I yanked all tubes and deoxit all tubes (should have done it when I did the pots and jacks upon purchasing the amp), and all is better.
As a result of this I don't think I can accurately comment on what difference the added 70mf's made, and I don't have time to re-attach and test. Quite frankly, I just am too lazy today as well. I have to drive to the studio and we are moving a lot of equipment around today before running through sets.
UPDATE:
So after deciding to listen to advice given, I have altered my dropping string In order to dial in my voltages and have been learning how to play the amp all over again. There was more of a difference than I expected after dropping the voltage. I have also added Dumblator clone to the mix and the difference is huge. I have not installed the new output transformer as I am trying to get to know the amp as it is now before I alter it further.
Even without Dumblator clone In the loop, the Amp sounds much more like the sound in my head.
My only question is with the PI Voltages, or they too high?
I attached these two Excel spreadsheets with my voltage readings for anyone who would be so kind as to review them, the date of the readings is at the top of each chart.
Joining this forum has definitely provided the learning experience I was looking for, thanks to all who have responded to me.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Ok, thanks for the check Merc. It took me a while to actually be able to figure out how to calculate the resistor drops, took me several days to catch on actually. But yes, this is what I wanted and I hope to takle a TW build next. It will prb take me a few months of reading over there to get to where I need to be before I start that one.
Thanks again.
Last edited by jcsifu on Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
But yes, this is what I wanted and I hope to takle a TW build next. It will prb take me a few months of reading over there to get to where I need to be before I start that one.