Another HRM clip..

[mat]

..with backtrack(+ added reverb and delay in cubase). Does this sound like HRM at all ? I read from dogears forum about lowering the capasitance of the power tube screens and liked the result. Thanks Dogears I now have .047 and .05 in there instead of the .1's. Bit 'meatier' touch and sound.

As earlier the playing is what it is but please listen to the sound instead Knob settings (master at 1 !!): http://www.pichotel.com/pic/16028B31e/142282.jpg

http://media.putfile.com/hrm97-070613-01

Cheers,

[dogears]

Great playing Mat! Clip sounds nice. A bit ragged in the mids maybe?? Could be speaker or pups?? Maybe lower the mid trimmer a hair....

What speaker was this?

Also, amp was really low... Master on 1?? I bet it fills out on 2...

[kleinm]

Great clip mat! I've been following your progress on this build, and I'm liking this a lot. Nice phrasing, killer tone...solid!

If you're still using your RWBs, you might try the Celestion G12-65s. I got a pair per dogears's recommendation and haven't looked back since. Way more articulate and punchier than the RWBs. Maybe not as fat in the mids, but that's fine with me.

Hope you're still enjoying the Klein-ulator.

[mat]

Great playing Mat! Clip sounds nice. A bit ragged in the mids maybe?? Could be speaker or pups?? Maybe lower the mid trimmer a hair....

What speaker was this?

Also, amp was really low... Master on 1?? I bet it fills out on 2...

How in earth can You hear that I just turned the mid-trim about 3mm Ok, will back it down where You suggested

The speaker is still RW&B - still waiting for the Celestion Heritage G12-65 reissue.

I will try another HB guitar after the weekend and will also try another PU on my main guitar.

All in all I'm not finished yet. The amp feels a tad hard to play and the sound is also bit too hard and clattering. I will get the Vishays for the V2 plate in near future. Hope they will round the sound a bit.

Btw. the speaker is tightened with 8 screws from the front of the cabinet. I might try to put it behind the baffle and see if it affects the sound in some way (think not).

With master at 1 the amp is surprisingly very loud. It gets much better when cranking it but I have neighbours You know I crank it on sunday at band reherseals Putting the master at 3 smoothens the sound but it still feels very 'cornery' (don't know if that is a word?)

Btw. any idea trying 500Ohms instead 1k's on the EL34's sockets ? Maybe not..

[dogears]

HAHA!!!! I heard it!!! 9.4k Mat..... That is it. Then adjust the treble up a hair to get back some harmonic edge.

Also, the G1265 is so much better you will not believe it.

1K on screens. I actually like the KT77 more than the EL34. If they are available, try some JJ KT77.

Great playing Mat! Clip sounds nice. A bit ragged in the mids maybe?? Could be speaker or pups?? Maybe lower the mid trimmer a hair....

What speaker was this?

Also, amp was really low... Master on 1?? I bet it fills out on 2...

How in earth can You hear that I just turned the mid-trim about 3mm Ok, will back it down where You suggested

The speaker is still RW&B - still waiting for the Celestion Heritage G12-65 reissue.

I will try another HB guitar after the weekend and will also try another PU on my main guitar.

All in all I'm not finished yet. The amp feels a tad hard to play and the sound is also bit too hard and clattering. I will get the Vishays for the V2 plate in near future. Hope them will round the sound a bit.

Btw. the speaker is tightened with 8 screws from the front of the cabinet. I might try to put it behind the baffle and see if it affects the sound in some way (think not).

With master at 1 the amp is surprisingly very loud. It gets much better when ceanking it but I have neighbours You know I crank it on sunday at band reherseals Putting the master at 3 smoothens the sound but it still feels very 'cornery' (don't know if that is a word?)

Btw. any idea trying 500Ohms instead 1k's on the EL34's sockets ?

[mat]

HAHA!!!! I heard it!!! 9.4k Mat..... That is it. Then adjust the treble up a hair to get back some harmonic edge.

Also, the G1265 is so much better you will not believe it.

1K on screens. I actually like the KT77 more than the EL34. If they are available, try some JJ KT77.

Ok, I'll go shopping tomorrow. I'll get a pair of JJ KT77's also. Only 20€ a piece on here

Thanks,

[blinddog]

Not to Hijack this thread, but Scott, in the last month or so I have seen you discussing pickups impacts. Those of us that regularly read this site know your speaker preferences.

What pickups do you think work best?

I thought I saw you said stay away from Alnico 5, am I right?

Thanks,
Jim

[dogears]

My current fave is a Dimarzio Virtual Hot PAF in my Baker RF bridge. Sounds incredible. A little hotter than a regular PAF. It is alnico V, but Dimarzio uses patented technology involving airgaps to simulate alnico II. These are the exception to the alnico V "ban"! LOL

[Tonegeek]

Great sounding clip! So which amp do you like best, the HRM or non-HRM, and why?

[mat]

Great sounding clip! So which amp do you like best, the HRM or non-HRM, and why?

Thanks Tonegeek I still like my non-HRM more, it has sweeter overdrive. On the other hand the HRM's cleans sounds better to me.

I'm not finished with the HRM yet. I hope to get the OD to work better. Without the d-lator engaged the sound is eaven worse. Because the cleans are very good I think the problem has to be on the OD section. I eaven changed the little blue metal film resistors to bigger carbon films on the V2 plates to see if the sound is different. Slight improvement I would say, but when I get the RN65's in there.. I'll report then.

Dogears, I did read on earlier post that You had a 120k on the place of the 200k on the pre OD network. What would be the advantage of this ? Btw. I did change the OD trimmer from 22k to 25k (measures 24k3) and didn't notice improvement on the sound.

[JamesO]

Mat, I'd LOVE to hear some clean clips! I really want to hear how these sound when the player does some chording.

[Sven]

Greetings,

Since ¨mat¨ was so kind to make some clips (couple of months ago I remember the best clip, named ¨sloppy 96¨, that I have heard on this Web page, with his non-HRM amp), and present them here, it can be generally assumed that he invited comments from readers/members of this forum.

It is easy to agree with all the above presented opinions on this thread. Indeed, this particular HRM leaves something to be desired ... and it does not match the above mentioned ¨sloppy 96¨ sound, in my opinion, which is also shared by ¨mat¨ himself. So far, so good ...

As people know, oh so well, everyone has some wishes in terms of HOW the amp should sound, so there is a wide spectrum of possibilities and options. I do not favor Santana and Larry Carlton ¨smooth and buttery¨ sounds, but would rather lean towards Steve Ray Vaughn, Joe Bonamassa, Danny Gatton, ... more clean, more aggressive, more ¨edgy¨ types of sounds ... and therefore, naturally, EXPECT to hear that sound.

This present HRM sound, as demonstrated by the clip on this thread, makes it neither to ¨smooth and buttery¨, nor to ¨clean, edgy and active¨ type of sound.

It is not quite clear HOW would HRM device influence the clean sound, if one assumes that clean sound is created by CL1 and CL2 valve (12AX7) going into PI and power valves, that is, without OD valve, OD1 and OD2, in the circuit (or am I totally wrong on this one, could someone explain?).

As for the pickups, it is very clever that one participant mentioned AlNiCo II type of magnet. I have heard two pickups made by ¨Genesis pickups¨ (Telecaster replacements), at my friends' who happens to be a friend of the fellow who makes those ¨Genesis pickups¨. That pickup was awesome, indeed. So, I would be inclined to check out Genesis pickup named Mr. Browney, as presented on this Web page

http://genesispickups.com/products.html

Again, Mr. Browney is yet not available to me, but it shall be, hopefully soon ...

Finally, I would like to praise ¨mat¨ for his excellent guitar playing skills, his nice phrasing, smooth style and dynamics. I really, really enjoy his clips, because they are made by such a good guitar player ... that helps, indeed!

Also, YES, please, give us some CLEAN CHORDS -- let it all hang out! And, while recordng, make the amp a bit louder ... Volume and Master knobs at ¨1 or 2¨ really do not represent the true sound of amplifiers as they are meant to sound in the real world. While cranking up an amp more, though, watch for the digital recording media you are using, since digital recording media distortion is awful. Well, that calls for a bit more of sound recording skills ... but, hey, invite some good sound engineer to your home or prctice room, and let him make some good recordings. You know, some of the degradation of amp sound quality also happens in poorly used digital recording media!

All the best, and thanks for making us all this knowledge and experience available and so helpful.

Sven

[ayan]

Greetings,
It is not quite clear HOW would HRM device influence the clean sound, if one assumes that clean sound is created by CL1 and CL2 valve (12AX7) going into PI and power valves, that is, without OD valve, OD1 and OD2, in the circuit (or am I totally wrong on this one, could someone explain?).

Sven

Well, the thing is that the HRM amps made changes besides adding a second, internal tone stack:

1. Changed the power supply somewhat

2. Eliminated the negative feedback loop around V1B (biggest change, IMHO)

3. Added a "big" 47pF cap in the clean master volume control. Some modified amps, even those with a single overall master, already had a brightness cap there, but the originals did not

4. Of course HRM came with the Skyliner EQ, which when compared to the earlier 80s preamp voicing, sounds HUGE (.01uF VS .047uF midrange cap being a big difference between the two circuits)

Cheers,

Gil

[Sven]

Well, the thing is that the HRM amps made changes besides adding a second, internal tone stack:

*****************

Cheers,

Gil

OK, that makes sense - thanks for contributing that explanation. Indeed, it is noticeable that the first pre-amp ckt (around CL1 and CL2 including tone stack) and some other features of HRM amplifier are different than the non-HRM amplifier. I forgot that ...

Well, that means that most people think that the ¨clean¨ sound of HRM amp is very good, perhaps better than the non-HRM. So far so good ...

Now, how could one make the OD ckt with HRM EQ section work better towards achieving more open, less ¨congested¨ distorted sound when OD is engaged? That seems to be the secret of a good HRM design, indeed.

As for the power amp stage, the general consensus is that 6V6 valves would ¨break up earlier¨, while 6L6 valves make clean sound headroom higher, and than distort at the high power, while EL34 are somewhere in between 6V6 and 6L6, all other factors being similar or equal. That is just about summed up opinion about power valves, as presented in several threads here. Right? By the way, where does the KT77 fit in there, as suggested on other thread (instead of EL34)?

Now the question is whether there is something wrong or ¨not yet ready for the prime time¨ with the OD pre-amp circuit, or perhaps tuning of HRM EQ section?

All the best,

Sven

[mat]

Great clip mat! I've been following your progress on this build, and I'm liking this a lot. Nice phrasing, killer tone...solid!

If you're still using your RWBs, you might try the Celestion G12-65s. I got a pair per dogears's recommendation and haven't looked back since. Way more articulate and punchier than the RWBs. Maybe not as fat in the mids, but that's fine with me.

Hope you're still enjoying the Klein-ulator.

Hi kleinm Sorry, I missed Your post somehow. Yes, still RW&B. Waiting for the Celestion and couple of Vishay Dale RN65's for the V2. I kind of like the mid heaviness of the RW&B but I admit they lack some top sparkle.

Yes, I'm enjoying the Klein-ulator very much. Very cool box for the non-HRM I have. I use it all the time. Was little surprised that it hasn't have more attention on the brownnote forum

I will report if I gain any improvement with the HRM and tease the forum with my sound clips also in future

cheers,