Home Theatre

[Colossal]

I have a 5.1 system which is adequate for my needs but I've been wanting to do an all-tube 2.1 system for a while. Open architecture look with the chassis cased in wood and glass and transformers up in the air would be cool.

As Mark said, any suggestions for pre/power amp design and speaker/sub selections are welcome. My application would be for music listening and movies in a smallish room.

[M Fowler]

I saw on a Chinese site tall round output transformers and wondered about using something like that but then I'm also thinking about just using some old transformers.

I see most are parallel class A 5k or 8k. Wondering also whether 300B or KT120 tubes or perhaps I don't need to be using such large tubes?

I could just join DIY Forum and start asking questions

Mark

[billyz]

I have a 5.1 system which is adequate for my needs but I've been wanting to do an all-tube 2.1 system for a while. Open architecture look with the chassis cased in wood and glass and transformers up in the air would be cool.

As Mark said, any suggestions for pre/power amp design and speaker/sub selections are welcome. My application would be for music listening and movies in a smallish room.

The Speaker and Amplifier selection for hifi are critical to a great sounding system. Tube amps generally need a hi efficiency speaker. Also, crucial is the dampening factor of the amp and speaker selection. A single ended amp is going to sound best with a horn loaded speaker , for its high efficiency. An ultralinear type power amp will work well with a medium high efficient speaker , like ported . Some times good results can be had with unlikely pairings like a Magnapan and an Ultralinear amp of 60w or so.

But do avoid most Home Theater speakers needing high powered amps like 100-200w for use with a tube amp. It will work and you might even think it sounds pretty good, but you will be missing a lot of dynamics , detail and sound stage depth and imaging.

So you need to decide a few things first. Do you have an amp in mind? then look for speakers that will be a good match. If you have a speaker in mind then look for an appropriate amp .

The preamp , if line stage only is pretty simple, in fact I find the simpler the better. But do use very high quality parts, wire, pots etc. All the hifi, so called Audiofool stuff, is real. Even the power cable, I have made my own and tested them and you can hear it. The Power supply is crucial to a clean pure amplification .

The preamp needs to be a suitable match to your power amp. Avoid tone controls for the purest transparency. I find balance controls mostly unnecessary as well.

[rp]

...But do use very high quality parts, wire, pots etc. All the hifi, so called Audiofool stuff, is real. Even the power cable, I have made my own and tested them and you can hear it. The Power supply is crucial to a clean pure amplification . The preamp needs to be a suitable match to your power amp. Avoid tone controls for the purest transparency. I find balance controls mostly unnecessary as well.

What he said is true. I've been able to hear every upgrade I ever did to my past and present systems (inside/outside) including power cables and wires. Once a year I break it all down and clean every contact with Pro Gold including the plugs and hear that. The audio fool stuff is all real but you need to be using the good audio fool stuff not mass market audio fool stuff, or the make believe audio fool stuff. Audio fool stuff is very well made, buy it used.

I worked for a place that was dedicated to specialty exotic tube stuff, problem is market now demands home theater, one solution was to use an AVR with a stereo only preamp line-out, not many, I think NAD had it, and you run that into a tube pre and amp and front speakers of your fancy choice. So for movies/sports you run the AVR 5.1, for music you just run the fronts stereo. Of course you have this big mound of tv shit in the middle of your stereo image and your fronts are against the wall and in the corner, but....

Dipoles like Maggies are a problem with home theater as they need to be out in the room. Good luck getting anyone to do that anymore. One reason subs work so bad is people stick them in the corner (and or inside a fucking piece of furniture). Corner is a megaphone. But good luck telling peeps that. An a $150 sub ain't really gonna cut it either. You need to calibrate a home theater. Of the mass market stuff it doesnt hurt to spend $200 more on an AVR with an included mic and built in Audicy for calibrating. Never buy the bottom line AVR - you'll run out of inputs - trust me (you'll be running the x-box you forgot about s-video through a balun) I like Onkyo Integra over Denon, Marantz, Rotel, etc. both for sound and ease of use. For speakers an entry level 5.1 in a box from Mission or Monitor Audio will get you something nice. Wire it up with Canare speaker wire and make interconnets with star quad if you want to save money.

Before anyone rules out HT for good sound check out integrated HT systems (not from Best Buy) but Linn, Naim, Meridian. You don't have to buy it just go to a dealer and pretend you've got the dough just to see hear what the benchmark is. You tell them you just got your promotion, you're building a new 6000sqft home and you want to do distributed audio, HVAC, lights, shades, security, touch screens, man cave, and a real dedicated home theater room like all your investment banker buddies have and you'll get the royal treatment. Dress like a golfer, borrow a friend's Mercedes, go on a weekday, act like a confident 45 year old frat boy. They'll even buy you lunch.

I've installed $100k's of shit that sounded sooo bad. I worked for places and clients (and interior designers!) that managed to get $40K of Sonus Faber towers to sound like shit - stark, untreated room, giant speakers in the corners. Worst system I ever heard was the showroom set up for $500k worth of flagship Macintosh gear, I ran out of the room before my ears bled. I stay away from residential as much as possible and try and do commercial work now.

Pay attention to the room, set up, placement, speaker height, symmetry, and sweat the details and even a humble HT system can be made to sound good. Buy the biggest TV you can afford then borrow some dough and buy the next size up. 42" is gonna look real small when it goes up on the the wall! Or, if you can darken the room to close to 100% get a projector ($1200 Mistsubishi or Panasonic will blow your mind if unfamiliar to this) and get a quality screen or Screen Goo the wall. If you don't mind a fixed screen the top ones from Stewart or Da-Lite aren't that expensive. It's the motorized, stabilized ones that are crazy expensive. Buy a $250 32" TV for Oprah, use the projector for movies, sports, and games. Say away from dedicated music servers - get a used mac mini, external hard-drive, itunes, any dac over $100, make your files lossless. There you go.

[skyboltone]

Well, I just picked this up.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... OU:US:3160

It's got a set of Mullard EL84 in it. Worth the premium price I think. If they're any good. It's been years since I had any Dynaco stuff. I used to run a pair of ST-70s with a PAS3X and an Oracle turntable. This will be a CD based unit for now. We'll pick up a TV sound bar to improve the dialog audio a little.

[LeftyStrat]

Well, I just picked this up.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... OU:US:3160

It's got a set of Mullard EL84 in it. Worth the premium price I think. If they're any good. It's been years since I had any Dynaco stuff. I used to run a pair of ST-70s with a PAS3X and an Oracle turntable. This will be a CD based unit for now. We'll pick up a TV sound bar to improve the dialog audio a little.

Super tasty. Dang, and it was near me.

[LeftyStrat]

I have a pair of Klipsch KG4. I've actually heard detail on favorite albums that I've never heard before.

http://chryslerjeep.blogspot.com/2007/0 ... ipsch.html

Only problem is they're extremely sensitive to room placement, and until I'm rich enough to build my dream home with a separate listening room, I'm not sure spending boatloads hifi will ever help.

[Colossal]

Billyz, RP:

Great posts! Lots to think about for sure. Thanks for all of the pointers. Not sure exactly what I need at this point. Looking at the classic Dynaco stuff for ideas.

[rp]

BTW people having trouble with the vocals on the center. Do you have it all set up correctly? From the source to the speakers? SA/CATV box, DVD, Media PC? If you have two channels you need to make sure the rest is all in 2 channel mode, have patience and explore the GUI on the AVR. If you have a center then make sure you are in 2.1 or 5.1 through all. But yes modern movies will have trouble with the voices when played back stereo. Even commercials are in bang zoom sub rattling surround. 2 channel is an after-thought these days.

[qtone]

Projector throwing 120" on painted wall.

[img:600:335]http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/s/f/1217684461.jpg[/img]

Dynaco Mk III's running the big Magnepans, and a Velodyne DD-18 sub. Tube pre, and PS3 as video source.

Technically its 2.1, but it images so well most guests tell me how nice the center channel speaker is when there isn't one.

John

This !! I have to ask which projector ?

amazing hello recliners and new home theater
awesome I have the issue here to get sound going
from blu ray through monitors.

But now I see this I want to buy a projector.

Question Im wondering for home use or even outdoor use on large building
where does one find a projector that does that ?

Like if I wanted a drive in theater in my back yard ??

[Structo]

Awesome screen shot!

I always wanted a dedicated theater room but the living room will have to suffice.

The only downside to a projector is the price of the lamp when it goes.
Often times several hundred dollars.

I think you want to get a projector with a lot of lumens.

[Cantplay]

Same folks who make cheap tubes make cheap bulbs too. EBay found me my replacement lamp assy $99 shipped from China.

I got 2500 hours on the 1st bulb, 1700 so far on this one. Sparebulb in hand just in case. 5 min swap.

The 2500 hr bulb didn't fail, it was starting to dim a little and go off color. I figured better to sawp it before it burst.

I'm a little over 2k linens. PT-AE2000U


John

[rp]

Yeh, you do need dough for bulbs. My bud is always broke no matter what he earns. He gave up on projectors as when the bulb goes he's 6 months w/ vids, tv, games. Solution, as a mentioned, get a 32" flat screen in the TV room. Use that for trivial viewing, fire up the projector for the quality time. Heck, you can get a 42" for $400 these days - if you're watching the news or a talk show who cares if it's a Scepter from Costco.

If you can get complete darkness in the room, ie finished basement, then you don't need super high output. In fact some of the lower output projectors have a better picture - Mitsubishi. Properly tinted wall (ScreenGoo) or quality screen helps much here.

To the project seeker poster, projectors are like motorcycles all pretty good, it's a specialty market so not much junk for fools. You want a HT projector not PC presentation type, native 16:9 1080i or 1080p. HT models sacrifice some lumens for better color, they don't need to work with lights on while people jot notes.Actually any kind of projecter these days will scale anything but don't go below 720p those are not for movies. Do some research, stick to known names, I like Mitsubishi and Panasonic, but not really familiar with other unless it's $$$ Sim2 or pro like Christie. Projectors @ $1500-$1200 are pretty impressive, the Panasonic at that price, not sure current model - it's the LED one and is amazing with great adjustment too. Go to Projector Central and check your focusing distance and room before buying. Don't get this wrong and don't be at the limits as you will screw up the mounting and be w/o recourse. If you are sitting close you might have trouble with LED or DLPs with too much screen door. Test drive for fan noise at full blast if you can or read reviews. If it's 2 feet over your head on the couch that matters.

Go to high end specialty dealers with well set up showrooms and see what very nice is, lie, tell them you're, looking to spend $20G installed for a small system, learn, then downscale and DIY from there.

Look for a projector with a sealed lens housing, ie if the bulb explodes (happens) you won't have to send it in for a costly overhaul. Filter and/or bulb access w/o unmounting is nice too.

You can make a real solid mount with some wood and threaded pipe and black spraypaint. If you get the measurements right it'll be as solid as a fancy Chief mount.

edit:

I'm a little over 2k linens. PT-AE2000UJohn

nice projector. reminds me, get something square, not all curvy shit. Much easier to measure and mount.