183 OD Tone

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ayan
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Re: 183 OD Tone

Post by ayan »

Interesting quote, Max. I think the video that Tony posted sounds bad. :)

Cheers,

Gil
Max wrote:
ayan wrote:...the wrong direction...by which I mean away from smoothness.
Gil, do you think that when building (and/or using) a "Dumble ODS style" guitar amp "away from smoothness" is "the wrong direction" in general?

I ask because IMO Maria Callas was right when she stated:

"It is not enough to have a beautiful voice. What does that mean? When you interpret a role, you have to have a thousand colors to portray happiness, joy, sorrow, fear. How can you do this with only a beautiful voice? Even if you sing harshly sometimes, as I have frequently done, it is a necessity of expression."

Quote from "Callas : The Art and the Life" (1974) by John Ardoin and Gerald Fitzgerald

Cheers,

Max
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talbany
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Re: 183 OD Tone

Post by talbany »

Max wrote:
ayan wrote:...the wrong direction...by which I mean away from smoothness.
Gil, do you think that when building (and/or using) a "Dumble ODS style" guitar amp "away from smoothness" is "the wrong direction" in general?

I ask because IMO Maria Callas was right when she stated:

"It is not enough to have a beautiful voice. What does that mean? When you interpret a role, you have to have a thousand colors to portray happiness, joy, sorrow, fear. How can you do this with only a beautiful voice? Even if you sing harshly sometimes, as I have frequently done, it is a necessity of expression."

Quote from "Callas : The Art and the Life" (1974) by John Ardoin and Gerald Fitzgerald

Cheers,

Max
Max

I think Maria's quote illustrates the point of dynamics nicely..But I think in this case..
Even if you sing harshly sometimes,
I can see where some might think the OD tone in Matts clip is a bit harsh all the time..
IMO The clip I put up of Robben is a much better example of what Maria is referring to or at least how I interpret it..

All The Best!!
Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
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ayan
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Re: 183 OD Tone

Post by ayan »

Maria Callas apparently was an interest character. In addition to having gone on the record expressing her thoughts about many topics, it seems she may have been a rather feisty woman:

"Don't talk to me about rules, dear. Wherever I stay I make the goddam rules." - Maria Callas

8)

Gil
talbany wrote:
Max wrote:
ayan wrote:...the wrong direction...by which I mean away from smoothness.
Gil, do you think that when building (and/or using) a "Dumble ODS style" guitar amp "away from smoothness" is "the wrong direction" in general?

I ask because IMO Maria Callas was right when she stated:

"It is not enough to have a beautiful voice. What does that mean? When you interpret a role, you have to have a thousand colors to portray happiness, joy, sorrow, fear. How can you do this with only a beautiful voice? Even if you sing harshly sometimes, as I have frequently done, it is a necessity of expression."

Quote from "Callas : The Art and the Life" (1974) by John Ardoin and Gerald Fitzgerald

Cheers,

Max
Max

I think Maria's quote illustrates the point of dynamics nicely..But I think in this case..
Even if you sing harshly sometimes,
I can see where some might think the OD tone in Matts clip is a bit harsh all the time..
IMO The clip I put up of Robben is a much better example of what Maria is referring to or at least how I interpret it..

All The Best!!
Tony
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CHIP
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Re: 183 OD Tone

Post by CHIP »

I've heard clips of 183 that were smoother than the one posted in this thread. Like Greg said it's a versatle circuit.
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Mac Daddy
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Re: 183 OD Tone

Post by Mac Daddy »

Ok here we go again
The real 183 Scott Lerner

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/dumble/ ... tLast2.mp3
Last edited by Mac Daddy on Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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talbany
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Re: 183 OD Tone

Post by talbany »

Mac Daddy wrote:Ok were we go again
The real 183 Scott Lerner

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/dumble/ ... tLast2.mp3
Brad
Let me be the first to say these things can be somewhat confusing :?
when it comes to tone, some here have totally different opinions!!..The fact I am trying to point out here is this ..When you up the value of either the Drive or level pots lowers the -3db knee (very similar to raising a cap value) of the OD circuit :shock:
In this case (quoted by your boy Scott Lerner)
Tony, in my experience, the two main differences of the 250k pot is the increased miller effect causing loss of high end and the increase in bass as the rc network created by the .01 and the pot allow more bass.
By adding more bass to the OD tone you get the low end fart/flutter more prominent (especially on the E A D wound strings) naturally!!..This kind of break up when not controlled properly (like you point out in Matts vid) can be somewhat farty, buzzy or sometimes called toothey (or as Maria puts it harsh :D), as well as sometimes obnoxious IMO.. I hear this in just about all the 183 clips (on the lower note/notes) to some extent..Of coarse this might very somewhat due to the player,speakers,guitar etc...
Btw..In the thread Scott mentions this..
Use 100K drive pot. Not 250K.

Use standard 220K into 100K OD entrance.

She'll be smooth as silk....
This is before 183 was reviled and no one knew HAD used them in his ODS's.. I was pushing (expiermenting)with the 250K pots way before 183 was uncovered..You can find this thread here :D

https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... 250k+drive
Nobody really paid too much attention to my opinion until they found out 183 had both 250k in drive and level pots..Then everyone fell in love with 183 :roll:
Nothing wrong with 183..Some people just don't like the character of the OD tone,perhaps caused by the lower knee the pots (load) provides!
Have A Wonderful night!!
Tony
Last edited by talbany on Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
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ayan
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Re: 183 OD Tone

Post by ayan »

talbany wrote: This is before 183 was reviled and no one knew HAD used them in his ODS's..
Could it be the only reason Dumble used 250K pots instead of 100K ones was to nail the RF Politician tone? Ha ha ha! :twisted:

Gil
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talbany
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Re: 183 OD Tone

Post by talbany »

ayan wrote:
talbany wrote: This is before 183 was reviled and no one knew HAD used them in his ODS's..
Could it be the only reason Dumble used 250K pots instead of 100K ones was to nail the RF Politician tone? Ha ha ha! :twisted:

Gil
Gil
Ha Ha!! Back!!.Could be for those guy's who needed a little help getting the Politician tone. :shock:
Calm down everyone it's just a joke.

Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
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Structo
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Re: 183 OD Tone

Post by Structo »

Where is Tag when you need him?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_inwqzxLqmY
Tom

Don't let that smoke out!
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CHIP
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Re: 183 OD Tone

Post by CHIP »

Structo wrote:Where is Tag when you need him?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_inwqzxLqmY
I forgot how funny that was. Thanks for a good early morning chuckle.
I'm going out and getting a Peavey Bandit so I can sound like Cropper.
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ayan
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Re: 183 OD Tone

Post by ayan »

Guys, I didn't even know that video existed. :) All in good fun!

Cheers,

Gil
CHIP wrote:
Structo wrote:Where is Tag when you need him?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_inwqzxLqmY
I forgot how funny that was. Thanks for a good early morning chuckle.
I'm going out and getting a Peavey Bandit so I can sound like Cropper.
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da Geezer
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Re: 183 OD Tone

Post by da Geezer »

talbany wrote:Here is a pretty cool clip of Robben controlling 102 IMO..You can hear the chirp clarity on the top end like Gil mentions in spades!!.. The tone gets snarley on the lower registers or when he really starts to muscle it or wants to accent a certain phrase or passage..Like the double stops (around 1:50)and the amp fuzzes up nicely..Really expressive!!..What can you say but tasteful!! IMO

http://scottlernermusic.com/ftp/DumbleTone.mp3

Tony
WOW! Never heard that one before.....what's the name of that RF tune?

G
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stevlech
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Re: 183 OD Tone

Post by stevlech »

That Road from Jing Chi.
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Structo
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Re: 183 OD Tone

Post by Structo »

The song "That Road" from Jing Chi Live at Yoshi's. :wink:

Brad that isn't 183 unless Robben Ford was playing it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvn1K0BQ ... 78B6AAD9C8
Last edited by Structo on Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Tom

Don't let that smoke out!
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da Geezer
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Re: 183 OD Tone

Post by da Geezer »

Thanks guys!

Wow, What great tone & playin'!

G
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