Gibson Guitar Factory Raided by Goon-squad

[cbass]

I don't know that it nescessary to even be importing all these exotic woods.
I've built a few guitars with woods entirely right here from missouri.I've only used sugar maple for fretboads so far but plan on using some osage orange I have.I've heard persimmon makes a great board.
I haven't really sourced any other native fretboard wood.Because I have so much of the tropical flooring That I think is gonna make some great fingerboards.

All the native wood i have got was from trees that were blown over or had to be cut out of someones yard anyway.I amazed at how much wood like this chopped up for firewood or just pushed into a pile and burned.

I belive black walnut is a top notch tonewood.
So is eastren cedar(juniper)

Don't tell anyone but i've got a few ebony boards. They've been in the US since the early 80's so hopefully the feds won't be kicking my door in.

[rp]

One of the finest D styles I ever played was made of Black Walnut, had everything a pre-war should have, thump, bright and crisp and loud and balanced - and as pretty as BR. If I had the $ I'd have grabbed it on the spot and I'm not an impulsive guitar buyer. Also had a luthier friend in Italy experimenting with fretboards of olive wood - those trees can live for hundreds of years and the wood is hard, figured and beautiful.

Instruments have become just part of the mass consumption mass materialism world and for most people's needs in the new millennium Ovation plastic style bowls, carbon fiber, or farmed wood of all sorts, is more than adequate, there's no need to waste rainforest wood on maybe 70% of the guitars made if not 90%. If you're living on a worn out planet that looks like Blade Runner, or human life has become like that of the rats on the NYC subway who really cares if guitars are made of traditional old growth woods?

My own take on the eco side of this is that if Gibson had been raided for Bird of Paradise feathers, Rhino horns or Snow Leopard pelts I think the outrage would have been universal but endangered tress are no different and even more essential being the whole foundation of threatened ecosystems. As for the feds showing up armed to the teeth (if true) don't even get me started on the excessive madness of the paranoid paramilitary security state we're devolving into. Guess the worst case scenario is that 100 years from now we'll be living on a half dead planet universally ruled by police states (singing songs of freedom on plastic guitars )

[PWE Amplification]

Seems like most people read what they want into this. It's not about endangered trees. It's about the customs paperwork stating 6mm fretboards while the shipment was actually 10mm fretboards.

If you need a finished fretboard that's 6mm thick it starts out as a 10mm thick blank. The impact on the trees is the same whether it's been planed in India or the US. And for those who don't know how it works it's real simple. You can't buy fretboard material that's been planed to the final thickness right after drying. You buy them thicker, season them and then straighten them out on a jointer and use a thickness sander to get them to the final dimensions. You would have severe warpage issues using them unseasoned.

Indian rosewood BTW is farmed and in any case the guitar industry uses 1% of exotic hardwoods. A drop in the bucket but it's much easier to pick on guitarists than to bust into mansions and conifiscate exotic wood flooring.

[Structo]

Exactly.
I have worked in some very expensive mansion/ homes over the years and there never seems to be a shortage of exotic hardwoods used in them for cabinets, stairs and balustrades and flooring.
I don't know enough about species and illegal woods to know if I was looking at a regulated wood but I've heard stories from tradesmen.

I remember talking to a finish carpenter one time about the woods being used and the Lacey Act and he said, money trumps all.
These people can get anything they want if they are willing to pay for it.
He said the black market for woods was right up there with dope smuggling.

[cbass]

I've often wondered about the orgins of the tropical woods i've seen.
Tropical woods do make a super nice floor though.Its very stable and You cant hardly dent the shit with a hammer.

[NickC]

Exactly.
I have worked in some very expensive mansion/ homes over the years and there never seems to be a shortage of exotic hardwoods used in them for cabinets, stairs and balustrades and flooring.
I don't know enough about species and illegal woods to know if I was looking at a regulated wood but I've heard stories from tradesmen.

I remember talking to a finish carpenter one time about the woods being used and the Lacey Act and he said, money trumps all.
These people can get anything they want if they are willing to pay for it.
He said the black market for woods was right up there with dope smuggling.

As a practical matter, those folks are completely immunized from the law. Since they are not going to move their mansions across border checkpoints, customs are never going to seize those materials via Lacey Act.

Yep, money trumps all.

[cbass]

As a practical matter, those folks are completely immunized from the law. Since they are not going to move their mansions across border checkpoints, customs are never going to seize those materials via Lacey Act.

Yep, money trumps all.

Thats good to know.But you don't have to be rich to aford tropical woods.
These brazlian hardwood floors can often be bought for less than domestic woods.Like red oak

[marcoloco961]

Obama and the bazooka wielding goons confiscated my floor.

I will be looking for this article in the next "Enquirer".


LOL. The haters are everywhere. Please leave the politics for your sleazy news page or your anti-Obama blogs. This is an amp page.

[dreric]

plan on using some osage orange I have.

I belive black walnut is a top notch tonewood.

IME, don't plane the osage orange, chips out like crazy. Cut or sand only. Very similar to maple.

Not sure about Black walnut but here in CA we have a lot of Claro Walnut which is very good for bass bodies and electric necks.

Eric

[NickC]

Obama and the bazooka wielding goons confiscated my floor.

I will be looking for this article in the next "Enquirer".


LOL. The haters are everywhere. Please leave the politics for your sleazy news page or your anti-Obama blogs. This is an amp page.

Irony is everywhere. Hypocrisy seems to be making the rounds as well.

[marcoloco961]

Obama and the bazooka wielding goons confiscated my floor.

I will be looking for this article in the next "Enquirer".


LOL. The haters are everywhere. Please leave the politics for your sleazy news page or your anti-Obama blogs. This is an amp page.

Irony is everywhere. Hypocrisy seems to be making the rounds as well.

As a practical matter, those folks are completely immunized from the law. Since they are not going to move their mansions across border checkpoints, customs are never going to seize those materials via Lacey Act.

Yep, money trumps all.

The Obama Administration is at war with every business they don’t choose to subsidize.
by John Hayward
08/26/2011

And don't the Feds have better sense than to storm in on a bunch of guitar-makers at a well know Nashville factory, brandishing automatic weapons. For crying out loud! Are luthiers on the same level as Ruby Ridge and Wako or the Weather Underground. Oh wait ...... the current executive branch was closely allied with members of the Weather Underground .... so I guess I have my answer.

Fair enough, he shouldn't have all the blame (even though the machine-gun-toting federal police that raided Gibson did so on his watch). Congress is ultimately to blame; they who have worse criminal records than the NFL and NBA combined and are arguably the most corrupt group of miscreants on the planet.


It's not hard to see what your agenda is on this post. Personally, I come here to talk about amps, or are you the only one allowed an opinion here?

[NickC]

Obama and the bazooka wielding goons confiscated my floor.

I will be looking for this article in the next "Enquirer".


LOL. The haters are everywhere. Please leave the politics for your sleazy news page or your anti-Obama blogs. This is an amp page.

Irony is everywhere. Hypocrisy seems to be making the rounds as well.

As a practical matter, those folks are completely immunized from the law. Since they are not going to move their mansions across border checkpoints, customs are never going to seize those materials via Lacey Act.

Yep, money trumps all.

The Obama Administration is at war with every business they don’t choose to subsidize.
by John Hayward
08/26/2011

And don't the Feds have better sense than to storm in on a bunch of guitar-makers at a well know Nashville factory, brandishing automatic weapons. For crying out loud! Are luthiers on the same level as Ruby Ridge and Wako or the Weather Underground. Oh wait ...... the current executive branch was closely allied with members of the Weather Underground .... so I guess I have my answer.

Fair enough, he shouldn't have all the blame (even though the machine-gun-toting federal police that raided Gibson did so on his watch). Congress is ultimately to blame; they who have worse criminal records than the NFL and NBA combined and are arguably the most corrupt group of miscreants on the planet.

It's not hard to see what your agenda is on this post. Personally, I come here to talk about amps, or are you the only one allowed an opinion here?

You messed up the formatting. I've tried to correct it.

Where in this thread has your expression of opinion been denied or ostracized? It seems to me you are the one trying to shut-down the discussion because it offends your amp-making sensibilities. More irony.

I encourage the free flow of discourse, including opinion. The Gibson raid is relevant to musicians, some of whom build amps. I am fine with agreeing to disagree, and trying to keep things civil. But when folks march in with "sleazy news page" type talk they are trying to shut down the discussion. That's what you did, in a thread that had already run its' course. So you don't want to talk politics ...... but you do insist on getting your political "dig" in, in a thread that was already getting cold. There is some irony.

Oddly enough, former President Clinton had this to say about people challenging "man-made global climate change":

If you're an American, the best thing you can do is to make it politically unacceptable for people to engage in denial

In other words, forget scientific method and ostracize anyone that doesn't agree with the party line.

[Structo]

I have heard it can be dangerous to work with some tropical woods.
Some people have higher sensitivities than others but there are a few species that can cause illness if the dust is inhaled.

Now, I could insert a Bill Clinton joke here but I won't.

Just be sure to research any wood you are not familiar with before working with it.

[marcoloco961]

With all due respect Nick, I wasn't trying to start an argument. Just voicing my (political) opinion as you have several time though out this thread.

Even after you apologized for bringing politics into the Gibson discussion on page one, you kept making remarks leaning so far right you almost fell over.

I heard the Right rhetoric in the Presidential debate. Every question and answer a bash at the present admin. In every news article I read, I see the parroting of party line slogans and unfounded insinuations.

I come here to learn about and discuss amp building, and get away from the political BS. I thought I was safe here. No worries, I am used to the routine by now. Carry on.

I will just steer clear of the Garage talk section.

[NickC]

With all due respect Nick, I wasn't trying to start an argument. Just voicing my (political) opinion as you have several time though out this thread.

Even after you apologized for bringing politics into the Gibson discussion on page one, you kept making remarks leaning so far right you almost fell over.

I heard the Right rhetoric in the Presidential debate. Every question and answer a bash at the present admin. In every news article I read, I see the parroting of party line slogans and unfounded insinuations.

I come here to learn about and discuss amp building, and get away from the political BS. I thought I was safe here. No worries, I am used to the routine by now. Carry on.

I will just steer clear of the Garage talk section.

For the record, I am disgusted with both the left and the right.

I came here for the same reason, to learn about and discuss amps. So let's just let this thread sink out of sight and forget it, okay?