SSS - Nukular Warhead - Chassis are Finished

[RevD]

Yeah but would a SSS make a good bedroom amp?


Regards,

D.

[Zippy]

Mmmmmmmm, bacon...

Canadian, English, American, or ???

Pig.

[Cliff Schecht]

Latvian bacon.

[RJ Guitars]

Yeah but would a SSS make a good bedroom amp?


Regards,

D.

I don't think so but if you want you could use the cabinet for a spare bedroom.

[dreric]

Latvian bacon.

Didn't know what what Latvian Bacon was...................... my cardiologist thanks you!

http://www.acanadianfoodie.com/2009/11/ ... ars-later/

"git in ma belly"

E

[talbany]

I prefer my bacon served!!..

Tony

[dcribbs1412]

too funny

[Max]

HAD didn't seem to make any two of them the same and if he made another it would probably be different as well.

Indeed. All Dumblelands and Singers I'm familiar with have a different charakter reflecting some technical differences as well. In Brandon's and my own posts here concerning the differences, AFAIR most of them are reported:

- some with separate driver and inverter stages - some without
- if threre are different stages for inverter and driver you'll find additional differences concerning the tubes used in these stages
- some with inducters in the filter stage - some without
- some with 6 filter steps, some with 7, one at least with 11
- some with a "off" position of the filters, some without
- some with internal trim pots to finetune the preamp-gain and the effect of the filters, some without such a trim pot
- concerning the reverb circuit, you'll find differences, too.
- concerning the tone stack you'll find differences, too
- concerning the OT used, you'll find still more differences

In my opinion one should look upon a SSS not as a "model" but more as some kind of general concept for a special kind of amp that delivers "uncontaminated tone" and will provide you with a very moving emotional contact with all the nuances of your playing.

A DL or SSS will not provide you with singing sustain if your playing is not of a singing kind. It's in my opinion still more of "you" what you will hear than when playing an OD-style amp. IMO a DL or SSS is more a "clear" amp than a "clean" amp. This is in my view their general concept that makes the different flavors of all the different specimens all members of a family and (or but) all with a very individual character.

An example: As you know the ODS 150W amps don't have a filter stage at all. But in the view of Alexander Dumble you would play a SSS if you don't engage the OD section of such an ODS 150W.

In his own words (Guitar Player):

"Basically, I've kept the Overdrive the same but the other models are open to flexibility."

All the best

Max

[dreric]

I offer my apologies for any derailing my comments have caused............ Now that we have that out of the way.

A classic in meat-wear:

http://www.hatsofmeat.com/photos.html

Isn't the internet wonderful!

Eric

[RJ Guitars]

...Indeed. All Dumblelands and Singers I'm familiar with have a different charakter reflecting some technical differences as well... All the best

Max

Thank you Max!

For those that have not studied the TAG archives on the SSS, search out every post by Max and you'll discover the mother lode of available info on that amp. His post here does a great job of condensing all that info and you can go back get more details from the archives.

Read his words here and in the archive a dozen times and you'll learn a little more every time.

Thanks again,

rj

[talbany]

For those that have not studied the TAG archives on the SSS, search out every post by Max and you'll discover the mother lode of available info on that amp

IMO.. the SSS was is a concept amp that existed in a kind of experimental state...An extremely complex build even for a seasoned builder

Good Luck!!

Tony

Notes from the Forum (Posted By Max and Brandon)

To describe the similarities and differences between DL and SSS is difficult for me, because I had the impression, that every single specimen I had the chance to play had every individual personality. In order to avoid wrong generalisations I'll just try to report the differences in character I have found in my experiences with DLs and SSSs as far as I remember now:

The Dumbleland Specials I had a chance to play all had a very different character as a musical instrument. One was like the best 59' Bassman you can think of on steroids (would perhaps have been SRVs "dream amp"?), one very similar in sound to a SSS without reverb, one (obviously tuned for bass guitar) was different again, and the "Silver-Aligator" "Pentode-Dumbleland" (the one that came back to US from Japan and was sold at Overland Express) was the "sustain master" (After hitting a chord you always looked around and asked yourself "where is the compressor"?). Ok, I will come back later to these differences in sound.

From a technical point of view three of those four DLs were similar (at least in regard of some very general specs and general structure): 7025 input and recover amp (don't laugh if I perhaps use some strange terms, I am not a tech) after the tone stack, 7025 recover amp (and CF? I am not sure?) after the Step Filters, 12AU7 Phase Inverter 12BH7 Driver, 4x 6550 and giant (Triad?) OT and giant PT (could easily light up a small village).
The "Pentode Amp" was a very different beast: 2x EF86 to replace the two systems of the usual input tube embedded in a very complex structure (to do as well some special tricks, like "sustain", I suppose), 12AX7 oscillator, 5751 reverb driver, 7025 reverb recover, 12DW7 mixer, 7025 phase inverter , 7025 driver, more "normal looking" OT and PT.

To be continued...

Goodby for now and all the best.
topology sounds pretty identical to the SSS, aside from the Iron, My curiosity lies in what makes a SSS a SSS vs a Dumbleland?

Have they all had reverb?

BTW, recovery amp is the correct term [/quote]


Hi Brandon,

Let's go on:

My personal opinion is, that to understand the differences btween a SSS and a DL it is a good idea to have a look on the "history" of these amps.

In a short cut as I perceive this:

Mr. Dumble, as a guitarplayer, did like fender amps but obviously found tone and dynamics of the blackface fender amps of the sixties not "state of the art": They did not move enough air for his taste, their tone was not "broad" enough, less bottom end as he liked and less open harmonic richness.

Mr. Dumble decided to build (for himself and other musicians) his own guitar amp in a way to correct these insufficencies (for his taste) of the blackface fender amps of his time: Well known example of these mighty early monsters: The "Winterland", that was offered sometimes on the bay. The sound of this Winterland should be very similar to the clean sound of the preamp of your small "Overdrive Deluxe" on your shelf fed into a high (at least 130) wattage 6550A or KT88 "High-Fidelity" tube Amp. Make a try (if you did not already) and let me know if I am right.

The idea behind this "Winterland" concept is to create a beautiful sustaining an harmonically rich guitar tone by making a state of the art (from a technical point of view) preamp, that does not ruin and twist the tone already in his first stages of amplification and processing, and apply tone shaping by EQ in a careful way to compliment the guitar tone with rich fundamentals sparkle and shine in a way without hampering the Mids, that are so important to "carry" a guitar tone to the audience. If you have such a preamp you just need a powerfull Hifi amp for the amplification of the preamp sound. The job of a Winterland, Dumbleland and SSS Power amp is not to ruin the already harmonically rich an sustaining guitar tone of the preamp and not to compensate for a lack of harmonically richness and sustain by power amp distortion and compression.

But at the time , when these early Dumble monsters (there is a "Winterland" power amp with 8 x 6550A!!) surfaced, a guy in good old england had made use of the 59' Bassman for something different and Hendrix and Clapton made good use of it: Harmonic richness (like the rich and blooming harmonics a bow creates scratching a string of a violin) by power amp distortion! Very different way to achieve harmonically richness!!

A Winterland was "too silky clean" (Dumble) for the guitarplayers of the sixties what led at least to the "Overdrive" concept.

But Dumble never abandoned his best beloved mighty babies and they grew up to the Dumblelands (Step Filters added, three tone knobs etc., it is all on the pics in the net). Dumblelands are alway at least 150 watt or more (300SL = 300W) and you could order them (Dumble catalogue of the late seventies) with or without reverb. But I don't know of a Dumbleland 150 Watt with reverb. But Dumbleland 300SLs with options (reverb and FET input) have been made. As far as I know at least one of the 300SLs has a true plate reverb (instead of springs).

A Dumbleland you could order for bass or for guitar. Some, that have been made for guitar later where used by bass players and vice-versa.
Besides the 4x12 cabinets Dumble made some great folded horn cabinets loaded with 2JBLs. Its unbelievable.

The SSS was introduced almost 10 years after the first Dumble monsters appeared. At first (look at #001) it was made as a "Twin reverb, as it should be, if they only had some engeneers at the Fender factory!"

So #001 is 100 Watt 4 x 6L6 (of course!) a combo (of course!) with reverb (of course!) and (a #1 special) true frequency "Vibrato" (of course?).

I will look at my attic, but as far as I remember now, SSSs in the first time all have been 100 Watt and all with typical Dumble reverb.

As a "clean amp with step filters" the preamp of a SSS has a lot in common with the Dumblelands of the same time. But in my ears even the early SSSs have a tiny bit more "glass" in the sound, while in direct comparision a Dumbleland preamp sounds a tiny bit more "natural" (I dont find a better word), broader and orchestral. And beeing introduced after the ODS they all had FET inputs.

A SSS is a (lead-) guitar amp, period.
Read the introduction of the SSS data sheet on Bill Morgans site.

A Dumbleland is a broader concept.

As guitarists liked the SSS, they evolved into a own family (100 watt, 120 watt, 150 Watt) and the SSS 150 watt replaced the 150 Watt version of the Dumbleland Special for Guitar, when around 1980 the production of the 150W version of Dumblelands was finished (Blackface 300SLs have still been produced for some time after the 150Watt was stopped, some for guitar (preamp very similar to SSS) and some for bass.

To be continued...

All the best
Hi again Brandon and everyone else, I still have some minutes:

Let alone some technical specs that are most important for the detailed EQ shaping and are a bit different anyway in every individual (custom made) Dumble amp - the preamp of a Dumbleland 300SL for Guitar with Reverb and FET will be very similar to the preamp of a SSS 150 Watt.

The most important technical differences vs. a Dumbleland are (so far as I remember right now) are:

Different use of the two systems of the second - second in the sense of the "signal path without reverb" (if such a thing really exists in an AC frequency amplifier, but it is perhaps a suitable image) - preamp tube, that, as far as I remeber (Brandon, please help: do I remeber this right?) in SSS is both, the recovery amp after the Filters and the reverb mixer. This will make (If I remeber right) of course a difference in sound.

All SSS I know of have reverb. The only Dumbleland 150 Watt I know of (even none of the Dumblelands for Guitar) that had a reverb ist the very special "Pentode Amp".

All SSS I know of have the 7025 PI and the 7025 Driver instead of the 12 AU7 and 12BH7 of the Dumblelands (Brandon, was this the case too concerning the two 150 Watt SSS, you have worked on, or did they have a different PI structure?), what will acount for some more of the differences in sound.

At least two of the 150 Watt SSS (and some of the 100 Watt SSS too) did have a Volume for the FET input (Brandon, what about the two, you have worked on? External FET Volumes?) I don't know of a Dumbleland Special 150 watt (including those for guitar) that had a FET input (some 300SL do!).

Different OT and PT (Brandon, what kind of OT and PT did you find in the two SSS 150 watt, you have wirked on?). As far as I remeber the DL 150 Watt used Triad Iron and the DL 300 SL the same as a Ampeg SVT or V9.

Similarities:

In all the Dumblelands and SSS I know of (Brandon, what were your findings in regard of this?) you will find some special "tricks" that (at least some of these by far leave the usual "Fender" topologie": Special feedback_loops, interacting preamp stages and so on.)

One Dumbleland I know of, the one with the most SSS like tone, has some special things going on. But these must wait till the next post.

To be continued...

By for now and have a good time
I recall the Reverb recover/mixer and recover from the filters as being the same tube in the more modern incarnations. the early one actually mixed at the master via cathoe folowers!

Both amps had the FET volume on the front, and in one it was foot switchable(built in 82 ish originally, so the footswitchable FET is not a "New innovation" as some would like us to believe )

One of the amps (newer) had what looked to be mercury Dynaco Iron at the OT, as well as the 12AU7/12BH7 Driver setup, it also had a lower gain type preamp. it was a 150W amp with 4 6550's and definitely said "Steel String Singer" on it.

The PT in one of them put 525 on the plates, in the other it was around 495
_________________

[Max]

IMO.. the SSS was is a concept amp that existed in a kind of experimental state...An extremely complex build even for a seasoned builder

Good Luck!!

Tony

Notes from the Forum..

Tony, thanks a lot for doing a search for some of my own and some of Brandon's posts concerning this topic. This would have been very time consuming to do this myself and sadly enough my time budget for the Dumble topic is still a bit on the low side. So thanks again for all the help you always offer to the TAG members.

Some more info about the differences between the different specimen of DLs and SSSs can be found AFAIR in Brandon's posts here and elsewhere in the net concerning the differences between his SRV and his EJ variant of his HPD. Some clips of EJ's, Henry's, Lindley's, Mayer's and SRV's etc. Singers are available in the net AFAIR and there is this DL clip I've posted somewhere here (#009 thread?) and some clips of the DL 300SLs of Chris Cross you'll find in the net, too (AFAIR).

Tony, hope you are well and thanks again!

Max

[talbany]

Max
I am Well!!..Thx

I just noticed (and sorry for not mentioning) that these were comments that were posted by you!!,and Brandon..
I too want to thank you (and Brandon) for your help in sharing your vast knowledge and experience here as well..I have learned much from your posts here as have others I am sure..I personally wish and hope you continue to visit and post here as often as you can...

Best of Health my friend!!

Tony

[boldaslove6789]

Indeed Max (and Brandon), I've spend many of nights (sometimes to the point of tearing bloodshot eyes )Reading your very informative and educational posts here on TAG. Thanks for your time!!