pinking BOSE

[Andy Le Blanc]

had a venue last night that a pile of Bose 402 but no controller.


remarkably consistent response between speakers

you can only get a useful linear response 100 to 10k

the big scoop with out compensation was centered at and around 4k

wasn't too bad a fix even with 15 band, great monitors for acoustic
instruments once you get the response flat

The bose love hate thing... it when and for what you use them
for some things bose are fantastic

[paulster]

I generally hate Bose stuff, but the classic 802/302 combination was great for PA because the 4" drivers in the 802s weren't fatiguing like most cheap compression drivers, so they had a natural HF roll-off and still sounded smooth up at really high SPLs. Plus you had no crossover in the really sensitive hearing range like you get with most designs.

It was a shame when they dropped those from the range.

[selloutrr]

you know the slogan.

NO highs
NO lows
Must be BOSE

I'm sure as you said low volume acoustic material it's works well for.

the second you have to put a kick drum or sub harmonic foundation in the mix you'd be dead in the water.

The 10K shut off is nice for vocal and guitar.
It would probably feel unnatural as a Main PA rig if you had to amplify the drums, synth or horns. The 10K+ area is the natural breath and air, esp if you used any professional reverbs.

I can live without the top end being past 10K but I need at least 60hz out of the wedge.
The other problem with BOSE is they are rather gutless, low volume, easy to drown out and overload.

[Cliff Schecht]

BOSE - Better Offer Something Else.

[rdjones]

We put a pair of 800s in rental stock back in probably the mid '80s usually paired with it's matching Bose 1800 amp.
The amp, being larger and heavier than a CS800, defeated the purpose of portability and was relieved of duty in favor of something lighter, eventually a Carver.

The small drivers were a pretty easy recone job although they rarely needed it.

reddog

[Andy Le Blanc]

had the act up on more "traditional" 12" and horn wedges tonight.
Even with a known flat response it was a bit of a struggle to get the Instruments sounding right for the artists, might have a similar issue tomorrow
but the wedges are a higher quality, I'll see, I don't make assumptions
about my monitors, they are tested and response at 1m is known...

I've a rock act at the bose venue fri, I wont be using the bose...
lame, deaf, guitar act... put in the ear plugs and go for blood...

[selloutrr]

you should track down some JBL cabaret series. They are super cheap and have a few decades of road touring under them.

They are usually out of phase and have a bump at 160hz, 800hz, and 10k nothing you can't settle down with a graphic EQ.
the JBL 6000 series power amps are heavy but solid and almost bullet proof. 300 watts per side for around $50.

[Reeltarded]

I have a set of 901 series II speakers that I bought new in umm.. I am thinking 1979.. or so.

They sounded fantastic in one arrangment at one place I lived from then until 1982 when I moved, and I stopped using them to listen to Zeppelin IV, which was the only thing that sounded great thru them.

I honestly feel like Bose systems are just shy of being a Nigerian email scam.

[selloutrr]

I think BOSE make a great OEM car speaker.

The low's don't go low enough to cause cheap door clips to rattle.
The highs are shelfed just enough to cancel out the pink noise from a poor strength radio signal.
Plus they don't get loud enough to hurt anyones hearing.

everything else is marketing and hype.

Old people LOVE BOSE! - the older you get the more sensitive you become to low level freq.

[butwhatif]

Bose----------put it upside eaw or other good stuff---------end of comparison

[Andy Le Blanc]

Last nights was a local garaging/cover band, not what I was expecting.
They was a local favorite, sucking since the 60's but have a blast in their 60's

They worked hard (flat, off key) for a good vocal presentation, and were a
real nice bunch of guys out for the fun of it.

I had a monitor crap the bed right at set up, I think it was one that got thumped
around at load out a couple weeks back, The venue guy was trying to help last gig, who knows

So I had to use one of the Bose...

After pink and EQ there was no tone difference between monitor types.
near field response at 1m was made identical, you could not tell the difference.

I put the bose up as drum monitor, close in, take advantage of the near field short throw.
The guy absolutely loved it

The other wedges were set as usual, they had of course, what the bose don't

long throw... thats the difference its not the monitor its the application.

I got to thinking about the usable range of the bose, 100 to 10k linear.
it reminded me of the old sound trick of removing the extreme low and highs
out the mon. eq... cleans up the mud and reduces high endy feed back.

I even went so far as to replicate the bose range on a floor wedge.

the only real difference was the throw, the floor wedge wins

No difference at 1m, If make assumptions your only screwing yourself.

I know exactly what response Ive set up in the monitors.
You have to work at it. RTA @1M!!! no assumptions...

[selloutrr]

I'd count this one up to luck not quality of equipment.

You had a band that was out to have fun not do a professional show.

my guess is they didn't know what they needed to hear in the wedges so anything was probably OK

the mud in a speaker is in the low mids (400hz-630hz) and over all the world has to much 160hz.

I know if i showed up to a gig with BOSE I'd be laughed at, probably fired, or at best they would be used to prop up an amp to decouple it from the floor.

most of my gigs are IEM and seat thumpers with meyer or vertec line array side fills and sadley a PM1D or PM5D. I miss the days of the Midas Heritage. I'm still not fully friends with the X8 the damn thing crashed on me twice last time in the middle of the show.

[Andy Le Blanc]

I do small halls with mish mash analog, and its local or celtic trad.

For somethings the bose are favored, which I'm surprised at too.

hence the post...

mud in the speaker is the assumption that you think you know the what the
response really is, I've watched very experienced techs come thru and play
the guessing game, trying to tell the artist what they're supposed to be hearing too.

I could care less if you have the misfortune of having to deal
with line array alignment issues, or are stuck with a digital board

I work with the artist, no matter who they are, or what crap the venue sticks
me and them with.

and I don't dictate to the artist what they're supposed to be hearing
based on my assumptions, while boasting about the gear I've used
who I've sound checked, or which venue I've work in, in just doesn't matter

All gear is crap, so how do you accommodate as many artists as you can
without falling into the pitfalls of bad sound?

[selloutrr]

I don't mind line array they are slow to put up but other then that very easy to use. you just have to except they are what they are and know when to say OK that's good.

Run smarrt live on your mixes, SPL meter and RTA. Get very good at reading what a musician needs before they ask, esp drummers. keep a very watchful eye at all times, second you look away you will be needed. know your equipment inside and out.. so you can run it in your sleep.

sorry you are stuck with a mix of equipment.

I think all we are saying is for the money or given the choice you can buy, find or use better gear then BOSE. They may work for some things but in a professional, or loud, or delicate enviroment they fall short.

I can't speak for anyone else, so I wont. But I've done the kinds of show you are doing, Mackie, JBL eon on a stick, 200 people or less, bars, horrible rooms, barns, etc. they are frustrating and even if everything is in your favor it's a good show at best, never great. I'd happily go back to running analog consoles and floor wedges any day but it doesn't pay the bills.

The good news for the small operations like yourself. Since the industry has made the transition to digital you can now pick up the last generation of analog equipment for pennies on the dollar. You would be amazed how your product would increase with an nice analog console, amps, and name brand speaker cabinets. If you have a steady clientel it might be worth a serious look at a business loan and getting yourself outfitted with a pro rig. and a couple roadies to move it for you

You can charge more, sound even better, and who know's maybe I can buy you a beer when we end up on the same tour, after a band picks you up to go on the road.

Not looking to start a fight, I just don't share the same possitive experience with BOSE as you do.

[Andy Le Blanc]

no worries... Appreciate your post

It's been a hoot so far...

It starts as a pick up gig, then a regular client, then the growing pains.
I have had to deal with so much BS you don't want to know.
Heck, probably do already.

The economic reality is that there is no economic reality.

It's been a heck of a thing trying to get past the learning curve of others.
The only best resource has been the artist, which has it own tweaks .

The bose aren't mine, I'm with you there, funny having to make do.
It'll be a long while until the available gigs justify digital and there still
many riders that say no, too many bands won't piss $$$ on gear they can't trust
Having one shit, did you say twice in one show?.... jeez guy
that puts it on par with bose quality