Marshall JCM2000 DSL Popping on powering down

[billyz]

I was actually afraid of damaging the PCB's they are so flimsy. Also, the power tube sockets screws are not really threaded into the sockets either, just sort of barely holding onto them at the side of the flange. As for the sound, I should not judge them all by this one, BUT. I found it a little harsh and brittle. But then I find most modern high production amps to be that way. The Trannys looked like they belonged in a 50 watt. The outside cosmetics looked BEEFY though.

[selloutrr]

it's not fair to judge tone of any modern production amp until you can voice it with after market tubes. keep in mind by the build quality do you really think they put in a tube that did anything but light up and meet a price point? Basic Sovteks are great work horses but pretty flat as far as a sound stage in concerned. but when you go cheap in to many places... I may have said this before but i spoke with marshall service a couple years back when someone brought me a DSL still under warrenty. They actually admitted had this been the first amp marshall put out they would have gone under just from the warranty repair. it costs them more to fix and pay the tech then the profit margin a loud for. I guess it's a good thing they had product to fall back on i just wish they would have learned from the mistake... Oh well it's not really a marshall anymore the golden years are long gone!

[billyz]

This one actually had JJ el34's and some long plate Amperex looking Marshall labeled 12ax7. The 12ax7 looked like they might be good sounding, but I did not try them in another amp.

I guess I am a snob, been using and working on too many vintage amps for too many years. Maybe I am just an old fart. My favorite amp of all time is a narrow panel late 50's Tweed Deluxe with a p12q jensen. The New tweed Deluxe reissues , Hand Wired even, sound harsh too.

I have also had the pleasure to own a few JTM45's and early JMP's . The last Marshall I liked was a Silver Jubilee. Don't know why it sounded good, I was inside it and it did not look like it should sound that good. Maybe good Trannys. a couple of JCM 800 I did not care for at all.

[selloutrr]

the jubilee got it's mojo from the drake tranny's they were over spec'd and just a great match. plus silver tolex didn't hurt! It's hard to beat the oldies for sure but isn't it partly due to the fact we have been conditioned to like that sound? I run into that all the time in the studio, $100's of K in gear and i find i reach for the old Neve 1073 a pultec and La-2a and i'm done.

I'm a fan of the older fender amps as well. But growning up in seattle it was a dumping ground for them when tours would end the bands would just sell them and fly home t save paying shipping. It was over saturated, almost to the point they weren't cool to play. There was a time I was buying Bandmasters and Bassman piggy backs for $300. I was always fond of Hiwatts and Soundcity, both for the headroom and the way they took pedals. My all time fav. are the Ampeg V4 and Orange OD80 and OR120's. PCB's yes but oh how they rock with the Fender jaguar and LP goldtop!

Just a thought... with age do you think the new amps will break into a place that is soothing to the ear? And if so how do you get it there quicker? a quick bake in the oven? a drag behind the truck threw the desert? leave it in a smokey lounge for a month? hook it up to a tone generator or reamp and guitar track on loop for a week in and iso box?

just thinking.... At least the oldies need to be serviced and are worth the $ to keep them alive... See the new amps are useful. lol

[Structo]

It's just my opinion but I think these newer PCB amps and SMD amps will never gain the mystique and homage that the old hand wired amps have.

The old amps with the turret, tag or eyelet boards will just simply take more abuse, are easier to work on and fix and will be around as long as vacuum tubes are available for them.

In cutting costs the amp makers have really started a poor legacy trend.

PCB mounted pots and jacks will never take the strain of hard use as well as being mounted through a thick chassis and wired to a board.

It's kind of sad to think where we will be in 40-50 years.

I'll bet these new flow soldered SMD amps will be in a landfill somewhere and the old Fenders and Marshall hand wired amps will still be chugging along.

[billyz]

I agree it is the sound you like that you think is best. My nephew is not impressed at all with my amps. He wants heavy metal, scooped mids, metallica.
But reliabilty, durability and longevity along with "A" good sound is the key to desirabilty 30 -40 years from now.

Alot of good sounding Marshall's are on PCB's are in the middle of reliable and durable. Hence, they are desirable but not so much as a handwired JTM or early JMP. Handwired, does not means instance desirabilty either. I.E. Rivera designed Fenders . Maybe, they are more desirable than the later truly horrid Fender stuff, but not a lot.

Actually, I stay quite busy fixing these turds, it just is no fun.

Happy Festivus

[selloutrr]

don't you hate it when work feels like work? maybe on a brighter note if they keep following the route they are travelling some of these companies will go under and make room for the small amp company who still care about build quality and pride in work to sprout up. though i'm sure it's go to get worse before it gets better. At least you can always use the get out of jail free card on a PCB... "well it's a PCB so the damage looks pretty bad, and that part probably took out all it's buddy's so it's going to be a.... (INSERT fav. word(s))" ie. A rebuild, Costly, Throw away, Long of hours on the bench... I figure if it's work that's when you get paid the overtime if it's enjoyable why not give a deal. I'd far rather tech for free on an old fender then make double time on a new Marshall.

[chungaleta]

I just worked on a TSL 100, similar amp. Anyway, I found several shorted small bypass caps/ I don't know why Marshall did this but they bypass several of the Power supply caps with little disc caps of like 10pf or 22pf. They are of poor quality and short out. Odd thing is some of them are not even close to the Large high voltage cap they are bypassing.

What a piece of Crap.

Yeap, I hate to agree, since I´m a Marshall tone lover, but the quality is not he best any more.

This problem is quite common, is just one or some shorted disc caps in the power supply section. (stock ones are of terrible quality)

Don´t throw it away just yet, take it to a good tech, this procedure is very cheap, have him install good caps in and you´ll have a decent sounding amp for years.
Cheers!

[CaseyJones]

$100's of K in gear and i find i reach for the old Neve 1073 a pultec and La-2a and i'm done.

Oh, rats. More stuff to clone. Got a layout for the Pultec:

http://www.recproaudio.com/diy_pro_audi ... _final.jpg

Then the Neve preamps run $3.5k each. Might as well buy a dozen or so...

I'm on the fence. Should I buy a Teletronix, a Universal Audio or a Urei compressor? Any of 'em gotta be better than the $120 Roland plug-in.

(Roland) Emulator crap for yer virtual studio. Yuck! I'm gonna go play my imaginary guitar. 'Cuz nuthin' sounds like the sound in my head... quite like the sound in my head.

[hookedondsl50]

I know that they've never built anything like they used to (especially cars), and it seems like quality has gone out with mass production, but there is no REAL comparison between a hand-wired and a DSL.. It really boils down to your ears ands what you like. In the never ending quest for tone, we can split hairs, and agree or disagree. I know lots of folks who are happy with their JCM 2000 DSL XXX, (to include myself). Im an old ham radio buff and I do extensive electronic work in my job. I've also been familiarized with old analog stuff and have seen the digital transformations with just about everything. I'd say Marshall has got an amp for everyone.

[Badside]

don't you hate it when work feels like work? maybe on a brighter note if they keep following the route they are travelling some of these companies will go under and make room for the small amp company who still care about build quality and pride in work to sprout up.

Right now it seems to be the other way around... they're making way for companies who build them just as cheaply, but also sells them cheaper: Bugera

I use a JCM800 clone I made myself on stage and my bandmate has a DSL50. It's actually not "night and day". My amp wins in the clarity and presence department. But the DSL is cool if you just want to plug in straight and rip some metal riffs.

It,s also really cheap on the used market and hold its value (assuming you bought used). Plus it's got the classic look (this matters to my bandmate...)

Yeah, it does weird things when you switch it off. We leave our amps on all night, no standby, so this doesn't bother him.

Edit: oh yeah, he used to have a TSL before and the treble pot started giving trouble (would mute the entire amp...). I opened it up and instantly told him to send it to a tech. I'll never work on one of those, I don't have the patience. EVERYTHING is soldered directly to the board, so getting the board out is a nightmare.

[selloutrr]

Yeah I hate working on those amps i've been in several and each time it's the only time I've charged straight hourly rate for the full time it takes. They are not a fun amp to get inside.

I agree they do a nice plug in and play for higher gain live rock.

[selloutrr]

Teletronix la2a is an opto compressor. It's best used to place vocals in the mix. I've had great luck with a matched pair of la2a in line with a mod'd urei 1178 (stero 1176) for drum overheads.

The universal audio reissue of the urei 1176ln blk face is a solid unit. Both the ua and urei are a great studio standard go to comp prob best know for the 40:1 smash function great on room mics and the limiting ability on bass and kick to even out but remain musical.

The la3 is a solid state version of the la2a
the la4 is a half rack version of the 1176 silver face minus smash function.

The neve 1290 is the preamp section of the 1073 and 1081 minus the eq
the 1272 is a modified bus amp with lower output then the 1290

pultecs are great tube eq's but are limited in bandwidth

[Structo]

Getting back to the pop on shut down for a moment.
I can't tell from the schematic of this amp whether or not it has the first filter before the standby switch but I know on some amps that are wired that way they can pop when you flip the standby off.
Probably due to the fact that cap(s) is charged.

Maybe a cap across the switch would help or turning down the volume before switching off?

[selloutrr]

The pop'n is due to thin traces it's a design flaw I've had the best luck running hard lines from the pt to the diodes and bypassing the traces.