RELIABLE ??????

[ampdoc1]

I just purchased a Groove Tubes Trio preamp (third version, with the chrome front plate) out of England. I hadn't considered that it has a 240V tranny, but with the light power demand I can cheaply get a dongle to power it.

But, I was really surprised to see it was built in China!! Does anyone here know if all the GT amps were built abroad, or was it just this series? My concern is that when I think of reliability, Chinese electronics doesn't spring to mind.

a'doc1

[teemuk]

My concern is that when I think of reliability, Chinese electronics doesn't spring to mind.

That's just a myth.

Ultimately, there's no thing that ties the place of manufacturing to specs like reliability. ...Sure, if the manufacturer wants to save pennies he'll likely outsource the manufacturing into country where manufacturing is cheap (like China). Usually simultaneously the manufacturer also...

- uses cheaper components
- invests less to quality control
- invests less to design process (e.g. improving reliability)

...Yep, I can totally see how it's now China's fault the product turned out to be moderately unreliable.

Most failures I've ever wittnessed in amps have happened to oldish Ampeg and newish Marshall amps. None manufactured in China. Their unreliability is explained by entirely other things than the place of their origin.

A good handful of commonplace electric items found from my home (television, radio, computer, clocks, fridge, etc.) have been manufactured in cheap places like China (or Asia in general) and they have never shown any signs of trouble.

[Randall]

Sure, if the manufacturer wants to save pennies he'll likely outsource the manufacturing into country where manufacturing is cheap (like China). Usually simultaneously the manufacturer also...

- uses cheaper components
- invests less to quality control
- invests less to design process (e.g. improving reliability)

Whether it's "China's fault" or not, the end result amounts the same thing. The ongoing trend towards disposable, crap gear.

[Structo]

Those among us that remember the influx of goods made in Japan will remember a lot of it was junk at first.

But they got better at it.
Nowadays if you find something actually made in Japan the quality is usually very good.

China is where Japan was in the early 60's, or maybe a bit later.
There are goods that are of good quality and it will only get better with time.

So once China reaches perfection in manufacturing, what developing country will takes it's place to manufacture goods cheaply?

[Cantplay]

Haiti is one of the cheapest labor forces.

I am now starting to see Levi jeans from there.

John

[Milkmansound]

My concern is that when I think of reliability, Chinese electronics doesn't spring to mind.

That's just a myth.

I agree - my iPhone was built in China. I have had 4-5 of them over the years and never a problem with them electronically

I have also been really lucky with new production Chinese tubes. I know its crazy - but they have come to be very reliable!

[Leo_Gnardo]

China is where Japan was in the early 60's

+1 on that Tom!

So once China reaches perfection in manufacturing, what developing country will takes it's place to manufacture goods cheaply?

Some friends & I were kickin' this idea around a couple years ago. Somebody said "Africa" and I said they don't have the infrastructure. Well guess again LeoGnardo... Looks like China is setting up manufacturing and accompanying infrastructure in Africa. Hey I have long underwear from Lesotho that's terrific, works well, long-wearing, got 'em on now, nice 'n toasty. Who knew?

Haiti, another good choice.

Wherever the pay scale is rock-bottom, that's where manufacturing is going to move. Maybe even Cairo Illinois?

[ampdoc1]

Thanks for a dose of reality guys!! I'm 63, so I lived thru the "bad" Japanese and Chinese products years. I guess old habits (and perceptions) die hard.

Actually, the insides look good, and the tranny is a Mercury Magnetics. And, I found a ~ $20 adapter to enable 120V use (probably made offshore also).

a'doc1

[Reeltarded]

Maybe even Cairo Illinois?

The most racist town on the planet that killed itself with racisim?

Nice buidling.

[katopan]

India is in line behind China.

[vibratoking]

Whether it's "China's fault" or not, the end result amounts the same thing. The ongoing trend towards disposable, crap gear.

I don't agree with that. We are seeing a lot more electronics now than 20 or 30 years ago. Most of it is commodities. The sales prices are driven down to very low levels by the market. So yes, all of this is disposable because it is simply cheaper to buy a replacement than fix any of it. How can a guy charging a $65/hour shop rate be a viable solution if the replacement cost is 1 or 2 or 3 hours of repair time? Off to buy a new one. The level of complexity has gone way up for many items. This means higher failure rates and that it's less likely that it can be repaired efficiently. Of course, many products are built with shoddy components. There are millions of flat screen monitors and PCs in the dump because of shoddy electrolytic caps that spilled their guts. Everything else in those is solid. It's a single point failure. My house is fully equipped with GOOD equipment that I saved from the dump and fixed for next to nothing. Would I have paid someone to do that? Nope, it wouldn't have made economic sense. China is not to blame disposable electronics.

I am down on China because so many of our jobs transferred there, but it was largely US 'business' men that made it happen. I am down on China for stealing so many products. I am down on Behringer for that too. I am down on China for poor business ethics and lack of morals. I am down on China for reverse engineering and stealing ideas and inventions that others worked hard to create and paid high costs to materialize. There is a lot wrong with China, but there is a lot wrong with the world and there is a lot wrong with people.

[JazzGuitarGimp]

Whether it's "China's fault" or not, the end result amounts the same thing. The ongoing trend towards disposable, crap gear.

I don't agree with that. We are seeing a lot more electronics now than 20 or 30 years ago. Most of it is commodities. The sales prices are driven down to very low levels by the market. So yes, all of this is disposable because it is simply cheaper to buy a replacement than fix any of it. How can a guy charging a $65/hour shop rate be a viable solution if the replacement cost is 1 or 2 or 3 hours of repair time? Off to buy a new one. The level of complexity has gone way up for many items. This means higher failure rates and that it's less likely that it can be repaired efficiently. Of course, many products are built with shoddy components. There are millions of flat screen monitors and PCs in the dump because of shoddy electrolytic caps that spilled their guts. Everything else in those is solid. It's a single point failure. My house is fully equipped with GOOD equipment that I saved from the dump and fixed for next to nothing. Would I have paid someone to do that? Nope, it wouldn't have made economic sense. China is not to blame disposable electronics.

I am down on China because so many of our jobs transferred there, but it was largely US 'business' men that made it happen. I am down on China for stealing so many products. I am down on Behringer for that too. I am down on China for poor business ethics and lack of morals. I am down on China for reverse engineering and stealing ideas and inventions that others worked hard to create and paid high costs to materialize. There is a lot wrong with China, but there is a lot wrong with the world and there is a lot wrong with people.

I couldn't have said it better, VK.

[Reeltarded]

I am from Cairo IL. I hate China.

[ampdoc1]

Vibra,...you are spot on.

All our economic woes, and the spread of offshore vendors is solely due to the short-sightedness and EXTREME greed of American business executives over the past thirty five years. I won't mince words,...I hope every one of the bastards that off-shore'd a single worker or whose company holds millions of dollars in other countries to avoid taxes,...burns in Hell!!!

Fuck 'em.

Sorry if I'm frank, but this is sore point for me. No, I haven't been personally affected by these things, but I have daughters and grand-daughters who will probably see the end of American prosperity in their lifetimes.

adoc1

[John_P_WI]

but I have daughters and grand-daughters who will probably see the end of American prosperity in their lifetimes.

adoc1

If not already adoc....